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514 Cam & Lifter Change
I recently had a mechanical roller lifter failure. I have about 13k on the engine. It is a crate 514 from Ford. The tech line seemed surprised that I got that many miles out of it. They have suggested going to a milder cam, hydraulic lifters, different push rods, and lighter springs. I have already odered the parts to make the change. Woundering if anybody else has. They say I will probably loose about 30 to 40 hp which I guess is no big deal when you have 635hp.
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Race parts only
Hi,
A solid roller set up is normally used for race motors only, as they need to be taken apart and inspected every season, [a couple thousand miles] as the rollers will fall apart. Normally the valve springs are replaced every few months or on very high rpm motors every 25 1/4 mile runs. Ford sells the motors with no warranty as race motors not for use on streets for a good reason. Too bad nobody explained the high maintanence of running that set up. Good luck on your rebuild. Perry.:cool: |
I am using the 359351 Crane hydraulic roller cam with the 35532-16 Crane roller lifters. The cam has 228 I and 238 E and about .6 lift. The cam idles great and has lots of power to 5800 with the RPM manifold. I am glad I did not build too much cam into the engine. I dynoed at 525 HP and 600 ft lbs with 9.9 to 1 CR.
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I've the same setup as David right above. It is fine!
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I have the same cam specs in my 396 cleveland; its great, idles at 900, can lug it at 1800, come on strong at 2500, between 4 and 6K it's scary. Spun the tires going 65 mph before it hit the 6k rev limiter.
gn |
Hey Tom Wells,
Sorry to get off topic, but I am curious if you've had a chance to see what kind of gas mileage you get now with the EFI set up. John |
Hi John,
Haven't had a chance to check on the mileage. I'd guess it's around ten or less. When I get done re-tuning I'll post a note: just switched to a wideband O2 sensor and 42 lb injectors in place of the 36s so it's "back up and start over" time. The car does seem to run better :LOL: |
Hyd. Roller setup
I would suggest maybe a hyd. roller setup like what most the other guys are running on prev. replies. That cam was more suitable for racing but mainly the rollers, if you chose to stick to that setup a rigorous maitenance schedule is needed. Every season I would check your valvetrain completely, generally they will need replacement if any wear is detected or excessive endplay.This involves removing the valvetrain for inspection, a nice Rimac springtester would be nice but they also have on the head springtester as well that can be found through NATIONAL DRAGSTER if the engine is non blown weak spring pressure or seat pressure is not as critical as they can be shimmed I don't see any reason why a couple a seasons on them is fine. If you are competing on any level all that goes out the window full maitenance prior to an event is strongly recommended! Frankly it is quite impressive to have that kind of mileage on that valvetrain with no replacement, hows the distributor drive gear? probably like a knife. If you like working on them stick with what you had but replace it all including the gear, send the cam out have it checked. :3DSMILE:
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Theres a member here named Craig Aylsworth who used to work for FoMoCo. He has a 514 that blew springs awhile back and changed over to a hyd. roller. I believe he made a few other changes as well but last I knew, the car was running great (I was interested in buying it awhile back when he had it forsale).
You may want to send him a PM or email to see what all he did to his engine. He also does engine installs for SPF's. His name here @ CC is: Craigayl Nice guy, and I'm sure he'll answer any question you have. |
Thanks for all the info. The dist. gear was sharp. I was on the 3rd one. I wish I knew that the engine needed more TLC. After talking with the tech line, I have odered a cam, lifters, push rods, and lighter springs. I went with hydraulic flat tappets. I don't race it, just get on it once in a while. The newest find is when I took the cam out Sunday, all the cam bearings are junk. So I took a rod cap off and that looked fine. So it looks like I will be pulling the motor in the next couple of days.:JEKYLHYDE
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Great decision! I would also do a through cleaning on the block oil passages such just to be sure of any metal contaminates, those high end screen filters are a great investment helps you find problems before they find you. Have fun!
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Hey scootter,
Get a new distributor gear from the cam mfr while you are at it. That way you can be sure it's the correct material (iron gear for iron cam, steel gear for steel cam). When the new gear is installed onto the distributor shaft, make sure it's in exactly the correct place. Don't ask how I know this... |
Like Tom Wells, I have the Crane steel distributor gear for the Crane steel hydraulic roller cam. I did not want to go through the difficulties of the bronze gear installation. Crane had the complete hydraulic roller solution.
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I odered all the parts from Ford Racing. I got the cast dist gear to go with the new cam. As for how high to put the dist gear, that could be a little challenge since the block is worn were the dist gear sits. Also the one hole were the lifter failed has a couple of marks in it.
Scott |
Uh oh, Scott,
Sounds like time for a "new" block. They're not very expensive and could save you some migraines. Tom |
Solid roller lifter setups can last a lot longer...
If you pay special attention to lift, lobe shape, etc., you can drop the spring rate way down and run a solid lifter a whole lot longer than 13K street miles.
Trouble is, most off the shelf cams for solid roller are huge lift, aggressive ramps, and require high spring rates. You have to have a custom cam made with far more realistic street specs if longevity is a requirement. Properly configured, I've seen then run 20-25K between needing adjustment, and last the normal life of a high performance street engine (80-100K). I think solid roller is wrongfully tagged as short-lived simply because most people run them with .680+ lift, ramps that look like flying rectangles, and spring pressures you could lift your car with. That, and they don't check/adjust the valvetrain, which I'd do about every-other oil change. I also think you're wasting your time running a solid roller unless you intend to spin the motor beyond what modern hydraulic lifters can reliably do. An aged modern lifter can reliably handle about 6200rpm. If you don't spin beyond that, you're wasting your time with solids. Most 514's will peak power before 6000...if yours does (ever dyno it?), you may as well go hydraulic and not have to maintain it. |
I made the cam change (Ford racing hydraulic) and it runs fairly good (11.81 quarter mile), however, I was thinking of going with a slightly hotter cam (260 degree with 640 lift solid flat tappet - less inertia and milder ramp than the solid roller) now. Good compromise and good performance from what I hear.
I was also pointed towards Manley valve springs as a solution too (heard that Comp Cam springs are not very good). I know a couple guys running an even hotter solid roller (672 lift) for racing. May expect problems with this cam though (but 700hp!). |
I finally have mine back together. I went with the Ford Racing hydraulic cam and flat hydraulic lifters and a new set of dual springs. I am still playing with the timming a little at a time, but it seems to still have great power and tourqe, and less maintenance. I delt with Marty over at the Ford Racing tech line. He was a tremendous help with everything from the parts to use and different advise.
Scott |
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