Why in the world is FFR considered an economy kit?
 

I’ve been seriously considering a MK IV kit so I took a surf over to the web site and priced out what I want for the kit in the way of options it came to about 25K.
After that I started adding the price of the engine and trans plus tires, Now I’m
At about 37K with a 10K engine and a 2K trans. I haven’t even added body and paint.
I figure that if I do the work myself it will still cost 2K just for primer, paint, sandpaper, and filler stuff. Now I’m just barely south of 40K.
I think FFR is a fine kit. I just don’t see why they sell for far less used than many others that Ain’t even close in engineering.
Yeah, I know you can build it for a bit less with a live axle and vinyl interior and other downgrades but the honest truth is that rarely happens. I guess if I stuck In a 4K crate motor and bought a used tranny that would also lower the price. If I did that then it only takes about 7K off. I’m still north of 30K
The funny part of this is I checked other sites out too and was trying real hard to compare Apples to apples. They all were within 2K or less of each other.
I do believe you get way more support from FFR because of the Way the company is run. They seem to care about all their customers and that means loads when considering a kit.
I don’t think one person can point to one reason why the FFR is considered an economy kit.
This is just a personal observation from doing a lot of site searching. I’m just amazed at
All the different marketing techniques used at these various Cobra kit manufacturers.

Hersh:)

Hey Guys, Take it easy on me, my flame suit is just about wore out...:eek:

Yeah, and imagine if one were available with an FIA 289 body...

Yup.. now matter how you slice it, you're gonna spend at least $35K to $40K for a decent looking, decent driving and handling car. I've put way too much money in my car but it's my therapy and I'd pay a shrink much more than that. That's how I rationalize my financial irresponsibility. Another rationale that I often grasp is that for $35K- $40K, you're gonna get a whole lot more satisfaction, thrill, and admiration than the guy who just plunked down north of $100K for his ZR1. DO IT MAN!

F5 has the stigma of being an economy kit because of their initial price of $9,995.00 when they started out 15 years ago, and the use of a "donor" wrecked mustang. Over the years things have improved quality wise, and factory options have increased,prices have increased and the supply of wrecked mustangs have dried up, making new parts necessary. I know of a guy who has a never assembled M1 car, if I can get him to agree, I would love to do a side by side comarrison with Jim M's new Mk4

Herch,what about doing a complete overhaul on that old Midstates you got takeing up room in your shop.....new crate motor and trans and some new paint and upholestry and it would be like a new car again....

Didn't used to be that way. FFR was without question the low cost leader in the kit car market. The basic business plan, donor car and used parts, addressed a segment of the market other manufacturers could not hope to reach at the low price.

With the widely accepted attitude that "modern is better", a basic FFR premise, the typical standard of building closer to original specs was down played. You didn't HAVE to go with an FE, top loader, correct wheels, closer to original body shape/look, you could do it for far less money if you didn't.

Today many manufacturers have followed the FFR theme, modern is better, and cheaper. The replica Cobra hobby today is considerably diluted from what it was, it is way more homogenous now. In short, "anything goes", there are few "standards" left. The lower cost of competing kits has opened the market up to considerably more people than it did before.

It's not unlike if Ferrari or Lambo suddenly came out with a low cost entry level car using readily available parts and reaching a considerably higher number of the population. Suddenly the exclusivity is in jeopardy, the cost attractive. Not everyone would be embracing that, but the manufacturers are smiling all the way to the bank...

Yeah, I hear ya, my daughter and son-in-law are wanting the Midstates. I figured if they take it then I would see what was out there to build. I don't want a ready built. I want to do my own thing with whatever I wind up with.

Hersh:)

Ernie,
I'm kinda glad for that ain't you?

Hersh:)

FFR is still the economy kit leader. Their base premise is to use their kit and a 89-04 Mustang, and you have everything you need except paint. There's still plenty of low mileage Mustangs available. Not many with the 302 Windsor, though. A 4.6L engine and a 5 speed makes a really fun car that's economical to build and drive. And upgrades after the build are everywhere.

Do the math there. A base MIV kit is $13K. A wrecked or rolled low mileage Mustang is another $4K, give or take. Add $3K for paint, and you're done for $20K'ish.

Don't forget that there's a lot of parts on the Mustang that you can sell off - interior, body panels, Body shell/chassis, A/C, P/S, etc.

The car only gets expensive when we start adding all the things we like: Big blocks, TKO, IRS, fancy paint, etc. Gotta keep up with the Jones's.

Bob,
Can you guide me to some photos of a FFr Cobra built with
just donor parts. Or better yet a person who did that. I
been to a few Cobra cruises and I saw one at the LCD that used the Mustang gauges and many other parts. He even used the wheels. I gotta say he had a Cobra but as you say it needed a few of those "I want to haves". :D

Hersh:)

I basically did the same when researching mine. FFR really initially jumps out at you. They have great marketing & you really can build it pretty cheap if you go bare bones. Who really goes bare bones, though? I put the math together for a number of cars, at the time. I realized that if I went with what I really thought to be an excellent looking car & cut my corners right, I could have what I really wanted(Or at least as close to it as is economically feasible :rolleyes:) within range of a really nice FFR..... I doubt I have the lowest budgeted ERA but I build mine quite reasonably considering the upgrades & add-ons I went with. Even an ERA can be built reasonably if you don't need all the bells & whistles.

Go over to the "other" cobra site, you'll find lots of guys who've done it. There are plenty of good straight donor builds on the streets. FFR has sold over 7,000 kits, the amount of variety is amazing..

The question each builder has to honestly answer is, "What do you want?" Track monster, fun cruiser, exact replica - they're all good choices, you just have to pick the one for you.

Everyone is initially attracted to the car because of the looks. That's what draws us. If not, the Lister would be the king of kit cars. After the look, then we each decide what we're after. And, of course, we have to decide what our budget is. If you can get The Look with $20K, why spend $50K?

I think there's really only two things you need to spend the bux on to make a FRR (or any kit for that matter) a really good car. First is wheels. Wheels make the car. Stock Mustang wheels are OK for the track. But if you're going for the killer look, the stock wheels gotta go.

The second is IRS. The differance in ride quality and handeling is amazing. It's the differance between a fun and relaxing ride, and a trip on a buckboard. I've built and driven both, and the IRS is the only way to go.

After that, everything else is just personal preferance.

Sounds right to me Bob.
I guess if you look at the 20K no donor kit from FFR then that puts them on an even Kiel with a lot of other Manufacturers. I like the versatility of engine choices. I really like that Coyote engine. If I
do one I would use the 2003 Lincoln 4.6 motor.
It's cheap and you can do a boat load of mods on a budget.

Hersh:)

In reference to the homongenation of the replica industry.

Well, it's a tough question with no easy answer. If I based my opinion solely on investment/income potential from a replica owner/salesman approach, the answer is NO, it hasn't helped ME. Therefore, I want the exclusivity back, less Cobras at a higher price selling to a more exclusive market. I cannot hope to buy and sell a used Cobra and make any money on it (as I have in the past). You know how many guy have posted here over the years about buying their Cobra as an "investment". And you know how many times ALL of us said, "Don't do that." It was always and remains solid advice. Buy a Cobra because that is your dream car, for personal enjoyment, it is NOT an "investment".

Well, actually, it used to be, or at least, they would retain a significant percentage of their value compared to most other cars. Now, it's virtually gaurenteed the most folks are going to take a bath on re-sale. Due in large part to two things:
1. Changing standards of what makes an acceptable Cobra (anything goes now days).
2. Flooded market, more and more cars offered at ever decreasing cost.

I've got mine! Got it the way I want it (a real FE with IRS and an accurate body/shape/look). I have no plans to sell it, part of that reasoning is because I don't want to take a bath on it! :) But really, mostly it's because it took me a long time to figure out how to GET IT in the first place at a price I personally found reasonable. Now that I'm retired I'm totally out of the game, I won't be buying another one. I'll rebuild this one as much and as often as I need to. I have no interest, personally, in a "modernized" Cobra, but if that's what folks want, I'm OK with it.

So the answer is: Uh, maybe, heck I don't know, I guess it's good, I think... :)

Ernie, You crack me up!:D
All Good points though.

Hersh:)

Never was much of a fan of the "donor car" idea....it just seemed that you would be doing twice the work and the end product was a new kit with a bunch of worn out Mustang parts inside....BUT thats what made the FFR cars so appealing...one stop shopping so to speek...all of your parts where in one spot...your driveway...with that being said....there are a lot of parts on my car that came from other cars SOOOOO i guess the "donor car" concept isnt all that bad....i just didnt have an old Mustang to dispose of....i still say rebuild what you have OR do a Daytona Coupe this time around...now thats an idea...Daytona Coupe...yeah...yeah..

$20,000.00 Buy it now
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-...item230a8fde6b

http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!B4VLZEw!Wk~...mqfWw~~_12.JPG

There was a time when Jaguar V-12's (XJS for the most part) were a hot item. I was buying and selling those quite a bit, mostly to fund my own XJS habit. But that was then, this is now, there is no substantial market for that car anymore. So times change and you move on to what might be the next good used car to make a buck on that is ALSO fun to have around. For a while that was a Cobra, not so much these days...

Jaguars, flash in the pan. Cobra is a keeper.

So I keep asking myself, what is todays cool car that would be fun to buy and sell and hang with for a bit? I'm still looking... :)

Dan,
That's one heck of a deal. I would jump on it but I have an idea of what I want and that one is tempting but no cigar.

Hersh:)

Hey Ernie,
Didn't those Jags have wood floors when you owned one?:rolleyes::D

Hersh:)