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-   -   Craftsman now mostly made in China. Bummer. (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/118404-craftsman-now-mostly-made-china-bummer.html)

lippy 12-22-2012 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1223955)
You're half right. They'll lose a number, but it won't be significant. I have no doubt that their analysis showed that the savings that would be reaped from moving production off shore will outweigh the loss in sales from "pros" and "serious amateurs" who will go elsewhere. Remember, their job is not to make the best tool possible, nor is it to "take care of their workers," it is to maximize profits in order to increase their dividends, while doing so in a legal and, hopefully, ethical manner. That's what business is all about.:cool:
I work at a fairly large company (9k people) that frankly is managed far better than Sears. I'm pretty certain Sears did no such analysis and just outsourced to improve margins.

patrickt 12-22-2012 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy (Post 1223961)
I work at a fairly large company (9k people) that frankly is managed far better than Sears. I'm pretty certain Sears did no such analysis and just outsourced to improve margins.
If you were a shareholder of Sears, would you want them to maintain domestic production if it meant lower profits?:confused:

lippy 12-22-2012 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1223963)
If you were a shareholder of Sears, would you want them to maintain domestic production if it meant lower profits?:confused:
The choice is either (1) improve margin in the short term but lose customers (who knows how many) and completely eliminate your differentiation from Home Depot and Lowe's, possibly significantly damaging the brand, or (2) lower margin or raise prices in the near term to maintain the brand and differentiation. I'd choose (2). Sears stock is largely a real estate play anyway.

patrickt 12-22-2012 05:10 PM
Alright. Well, you'll like this then: Sears accused of misleading public on Craftsman line- MSN Money that came out earlier this month.

lippy 12-22-2012 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1223963)
If you were a shareholder of Sears, would you want them to maintain domestic production if it meant lower profits?:confused:
One of the reasons we make fewer things here is that there are too many lawsuits. So I don't think Sears should be sued.

patrickt 12-22-2012 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy (Post 1223972)
One of the reasons we make fewer things here is that there are too many lawsuits. So I don't think Sears should be sued.
The fact that they were selling tools labeled "Made in America" that were actually made in China is a tough one to sell.... But selling is what they're good at.;)

G-Pete 12-22-2012 06:13 PM
Nice disscussion, good topic and even Pat hold his horses:3DSMILE:. Now I, m gona smoke a good cigar and have a Hennessey.

patrickt 12-22-2012 06:23 PM
An argument can be made that today's "Made in China" is akin to the "Made in Japan" from when many of us were kids. It really meant "this is junk." But, by the time I was a young man, Japan had cornered the market on high end electronics, cameras, and quality made, lower priced, cars. They subsequently stumbled, but that's another story....

lippy 12-22-2012 08:00 PM
So here's the skinny - if you want US made ratcheting wrenches you have two choices, SnapOn and Armstrong. As far as I can tell, for that product, SK, Matco, MAC, and all of the others are made in Taiwan or China.

Rare Iron 12-22-2012 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy (Post 1223964)
The choice is either (1) improve margin in the short term but lose customers (who knows how many) and completely eliminate your differentiation from Home Depot and Lowe's, possibly significantly damaging the brand, or (2) lower margin or raise prices in the near term to maintain the brand and differentiation. I'd choose (2). Sears stock is largely a real estate play anyway.
Sears (& K-Mart) have a third option: Remove ALL imported goods from their stores & begin filling them with USA & Canada-made items - in EVERY department. Want to differentiate yourself from all the other stores? You have to do something radical like this - something nobody expects. Think suppliers & manufacturers would want a piece of this action? Think shoppers would want a piece of this action? You bet your a$$. Competition among suppliers would start driving the prices down before long, & voids in the products would start filling-in. I would keep returning to their stores looking for new items. Pretty soon, they'd be kicking a$$ on Target, Kohls, JC Penny, etc. Nah, this is too easy to work........

bobcowan 12-22-2012 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy (Post 1223790)
I bought a set of Craftsman racheting box-end wrenches from Sears yesterday and realized at home they are made in China.
That's been disappointing to see. Like many people here, I'v been buying Craftsman tools for decades. I still use some of the sockets and wrenches I purchased decades ago. But, now that Sears is owned by K-Mart, you can find Craftsman tools everywhere, and they're just not as well designed and made as they used to be.

Now I look in Lowes and Home Depot for better made tools. If I could get them, I'd be looking at SK and Snap-On.

I look for products made in America. I pay extra for them. I know I could get a cheaper knock off of an Edelbrock manifold or heads, or cheap copies of all kinds of speed parts. The catalogs and magazines are filled with those parts. But I won't put any of them on my car.

Those cheap knock off parts are there because people will buy them. If there's a market, some body will fill it. But if everyone buys them, Edelbrock goes under. Then who will do the research to develop new and innovative parts?

bobcowan 12-22-2012 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Iron (Post 1224009)
Sears (& K-Mart) have a third option: Remove ALL imported goods from their stores & begin filling them with USA & Canada-made items - in EVERY department. Want to differentiate yourself from all the other stores? You have to do something radical like this - something nobody expects. Think suppliers & manufacturers would want a piece of this action? Think shoppers would want a piece of this action? You bet your a$$. Competition among suppliers would start driving the prices down before long, & voids in the products would start filling-in. I would keep returning to their stores looking for new items. Pretty soon, they'd be kicking a$$ on Target, Kohls, JC Penny, etc. Nah, this is too easy to work........
Dont' count on it. Those stores do so well because people want that cheap crap. Sometimes you'll find quality American products on the shelf next to cheap knock offs. Guess which one flies off the shelf, and which one sits there?

Americans are fortunate enough to have the very best of everything available to us - food, appliances, car parts, tools, everything. The very best quality is right there for us to buy and use. Unfortunatly, there's a small market for high quality products. That's why McDonalds and the Dollar Store have been around forever.

ACademic 12-23-2012 05:36 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned our "use and throw it away" society, as well as limited use tools by most shade-tree mechanics.

That's why Harbor Freight thrives. Buy a pneumatic grinder or electric Sawzall for under $20. If you get a project or two done with it before it breaks, you're still ahead. Unless you're a pro that needs the best for your daily trade, why pay $$$ for tools that you may never wear out with occasional use?

That's Sears more recent approach and they still survive because of these facts, IMHO.

I'd love to have Snap-On in my tool boxes (few would argue that). But I'd rather save that money toward quality parts and components on my cars. The cheap(er) tools still get it done.

joyridin' 12-23-2012 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy (Post 1223991)
So here's the skinny - if you want US made ratcheting wrenches you have two choices, SnapOn and Armstrong. As far as I can tell, for that product, SK, Matco, MAC, and all of the others are made in Taiwan or China.
Matco is made right here in Ohio. They are a customer of mine and I have been in their 2 plants many times.

Wright Tools and Cornwell are also made here in Ohio.

dcdoug 12-23-2012 07:31 AM
One option for torque wrenches is CDI Torque Products, America's Largest Manufacturer of Torque Equipment They were acquired by Snap-On and used to make the torque wrenches for Snap On (at least that's my understanding). They still sell CDI torque wrenches that are cheaper because you don't pay for the label, but quality should be the same. The also supply torque wrenches to the US Gov. I think they are manufactured in the US, although not completely sure about that and their website is ambiguous on that point.

patrickt 12-23-2012 07:33 AM
The more sensitive subject is whether American labor should be entitled to a higher standard of "global living" simply because they live in this country. If foreign workers are prepared to provide suitable services, because their accustomed standard of living is lower, shouldn't our competing workforce lower its standard of living expectations in order to compete? People don't want to talk about that because the issue has the potential to explode... like stepping on a Twinkie....:cool:

lippy 12-23-2012 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyridin' (Post 1224049)
Matco is made right here in Ohio. They are a customer of mine and I have been in their 2 plants many times.

Wright Tools and Cornwell are also made here in Ohio.
My web search indicated this particular Matco tool is made in Taiwan. SK and Mac also.

Tutosnake 12-23-2012 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACademic (Post 1224044)
Surprised no one has mentioned our "use and throw it away" society, as well as limited use tools by most shade-tree mechanics.

That's why Harbor Freight thrives. Buy a pneumatic grinder or electric Sawzall for under $20. If you get a project or two done with it before it breaks, you're still ahead. Unless you're a pro that needs the best for your daily trade, why pay $$$ for tools that you may never wear out with occasional use?

That's Sears more recent approach and they still survive because of these facts, IMHO.

I'd love to have Snap-On in my tool boxes (few would argue that). But I'd rather save that money toward quality parts and components on my cars. The cheap(er) tools still get it done.
Agree with you!

ChiChris 12-23-2012 11:24 AM
Once lower end tool providers started to offer a replacement warranty, it was just a matter of time Sears had to cheapen their products to compete. I do remember calling SK a few years ago and being told they do not offer a replacement warranty.

Rare Iron 12-23-2012 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1224054)
The more sensitive subject is whether American labor should be entitled to a higher standard of "global living" simply because they live in this country. If foreign workers are prepared to provide suitable services, because their accustomed standard of living is lower, shouldn't our competing workforce lower its standard of living expectations in order to compete? People don't want to talk about that because the issue has the potential to explode... like stepping on a Twinkie....:cool:
Sensitive? Yeah, we should lower our standard of living here in the US so we can be on par with China & third-world countries. That's the solution right?


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