Charging system or battery???

mnm99 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-27-2014, 05:44 PM

I posted this in a couple other forums too. Wondering if you guys can help.

Well this is the second time I went out for a cruise and stopped, went to start and the relay goes click, click click. I'm lost. My charging voltage at the battery is 13.86V when the car is running at idle. I have an MSD6al and a electric fuel pump. Turn the car off and it drops to 12.4. So it looks like the alt is charging. I can take the battery cables off and the car still runs. I clutch started the car to get home with no problems. Now...when I got home I turned the car off and was able to start it once then dead. This is where I'm lost. Last time this happened I went to my local Autozone and had the battery tested. Voltage was good and CCA was around 450 when It should be 560CCA. So I went home and charged the battery over night. Brought it back and had it tested. CCA was now 565 and voltage was good. I was told the battery was good. What am I missing? All connections are tight. If I give the car a jump it starts. I'm charging the battery again and having it tested somewhere else. How can I check the charging system? Or did I do it right?
Notes..It goes click, click, click. Cant start it by bridging the solenoid. Battery ground is solid and tight from battery to chassis and chassis to engine. Terminals are clean and tight. Can start it with a jump

Thanks

eschaider · #2 (**permalink**) 07-27-2014, 06:52 PM

CCA performance will always look good after a charge. The meaningful test is what it looks like one day (or more) later because when you park your car at the end of the day it is at least one day later before you restart it.

If you are loosing CCA performance one or more days later you probably have a weak or dead cell. You could also have a low level current draw to some electrical component that beats up the weakest cell.

My bet is it is new battery time. Check out the XS Power and the Optima Yellow Tops. Optima is less expensive. Here is a link to a XS Power stuff supplier who also does alternators => XS Power and here is an Optima Listing => Optima Scroll to the bottom of the Yellow tops and look at the D31-A.

A good Optima fall back that is comparable to the D31-A but is less expensive and also available with reversed terminals which can be nice on some cars like SPFs is the red top D34 also with 800 CCA.

Ed

Shootnride · #3 (**permalink**) 07-27-2014, 07:04 PM

mnm99,

I would guess that you've probably got a cell going bad in your battery. When it does the "click, click, click" thing, why don't you try taking a battery out of your daily driver, disconnect the cables from the Cobra battery and hook them up to the known good battery and see if it starts ok. If it does, I'd be buying a new battery.

Good luck,

Ted

Ron61 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 01:57 AM

I agree that is is most likely the battery. I had that problem in my 1965 Comet a few years ago and even had the battery load tested and it showed good. But it was only taking a surface charge and after running and showing almost 14 volts at the terminals I decided to just get a new battery. Never had a problem after that.

Ron

RICK LAKE · #5 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 02:57 AM

mnm99 This will cost you a first name here.
My first thought is a bad cell in the battery. You are showing 110CCA off during one test. Divide that by 6 cells and you have 1 dead cell. The Alt will over charge the battery to max. You don't need a battery for running the car as long as the amp output is higher that the drains of what is on. I would go with the guys on battery first.
I would also have the starter tested for ampage load if it's easy to remove. You didn't say how old the battery and starter soleniod are? IF you are running a mini starter, they draw about 70-100 amps to turn over a motor. Stock oem starter draw about 125 - 175 amps depending on motor compression and timing at cranking. This leaves 300 on the table. I am thinking the starter soleniod could also have burnt contacts inside the housing. It wouldn't hurt to replace this. We don't have an age or amount of starts done to it. With a weak battery you put a harder load on the contacts.
Make sure your ground wires and + wires are clean to the contact points.
Do the 2 parts and you should be OK. Rick Ps is there a sperate relay to the starter relay in the curcuit? I don't have a wiring picture of SP cars. They could also run a wire direct fron starter switch to starter and have a problem. Start with battery and soleniod.

mnm99 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 07:42 AM

Thanks. I charged the battery over night. I understand what eschaider is saying though. I did have it tested at 3 different places and all came out good. What's weird is the CCA on the battery says 580 and all 3 test came out around 650CCA. More than the battery is rated for. Changing the Solenoid is easy enough. When I get home I wasn't to hook it up and check if there's any draw on it with everything off first. maybe there's a small draw somewhere that keeps killing the battery over time. The charging is at around 13.85. I was told it has to be over 14 to charge a battery. true? Battery is around 4 years old.

Thanks Marc #467

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

mnm99 This will cost you a first name here.
My first thought is a bad cell in the battery. You are showing 110CCA off during one test. Divide that by 6 cells and you have 1 dead cell. The Alt will over charge the battery to max. You don't need a battery for running the car as long as the amp output is higher that the drains of what is on. I would go with the guys on battery first.
I would also have the starter tested for ampage load if it's easy to remove. You didn't say how old the battery and starter soleniod are? IF you are running a mini starter, they draw about 70-100 amps to turn over a motor. Stock oem starter draw about 125 - 175 amps depending on motor compression and timing at cranking. This leaves 300 on the table. I am thinking the starter soleniod could also have burnt contacts inside the housing. It wouldn't hurt to replace this. We don't have an age or amount of starts done to it. With a weak battery you put a harder load on the contacts.
Make sure your ground wires and + wires are clean to the contact points.
Do the 2 parts and you should be OK. Rick Ps is there a sperate relay to the starter relay in the curcuit? I don't have a wiring picture of SP cars. They could also run a wire direct fron starter switch to starter and have a problem. Start with battery and soleniod.

CHANMADD · #7 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 09:43 AM

4 year old battery........?..buy a new one......

.

mnm99 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

4 year old battery........?..buy a new one......

.

Really! I must have real good luck with my battery in my 2003 dodge ram. Never changed that and it's fine. Not saying the batt isn't bad, but 4 years isn't really that old too.

avdcav · #9 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 11:09 AM

Have you checked for parasitic draw yet ? Fix this if present before
Buying a new battery. It will take you less than 30 mins.

Chilibit · #10 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 11:27 AM

In the first post you said the battery ground was solid and tight. In my case the ring connector on the end of the grounding cable was solid and tight to the frame but the cable was actually broken inside the insulation where the ring connector is fastened to the cable. It was intermittent and not merely a good or bad connection. Changed the cable and it has been good since. In my case it is under the carpet by the left rear tail light assembly.

mnm99 · #11 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 01:49 PM

Update..I had the battery check and THEY (3people) said it was good.

1- I installed the battery, connected the + and used a test light between the - terminal and wire. NO LIGHT. Turn on the key and LIGHT.
2- Connected my AMP meter between the same leads and read 0. So far no draws.
3- Connected my DC AMP probe around the starter lead and cranked 4 or 5 times with the coil off. Reading was 165A. So far good.
4- Went to start the car and started to get slow at turning over....rrrrrrr...click,click,click...Nothing now.

So it looks like the battery is getting replaced for now. It is rated at 580CCA and I'm getting one that has 700CCA

1795 · #12 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 04:47 PM

Wise choice on upgrading the battery. 580 CCA is kind of light for the engines that we run. Mine has 800 CCA. Let us know if that works.

eschaider · #13 (**permalink**) 07-28-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1795

Wise choice on upgrading the battery. 580 CCA is kind of light for the engines that we run. Mine has 800 CCA. Let us know if that works.

^+1

In addition 800 has a nice round sound to it for CCA

Ed

mnm99 · #14 (**permalink**) 07-29-2014, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1795

Wise choice on upgrading the battery. 580 CCA is kind of light for the engines that we run. Mine has 800 CCA. Let us know if that works.

What battery do you have that has 800 and fits?

Jaydee · #15 (**permalink**) 07-29-2014, 04:20 AM

When the car won't turn over, put a test light directly on the terminals and try to crank. If the light goes out, you battery is dead. If you start it and the battery is showing over 14 volts but less then 2 amps, your battery is open circuit.
JD

joyridin' · #16 (**permalink**) 07-29-2014, 04:50 AM

You do not mention what type of battery you want, but I have an off-the-shelf battery from O'Reilly's that has 850 CCA. They have the AGM style, which is basically a Braille battery, for a few more dollars. These are all manufactured by East Penn, which is a US company and the batteries are made in the USA.

eschaider · #17 (**permalink**) 07-29-2014, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnm99

What battery do you have that has 800 and fits?

The Optima Red Top Model 34R, which has reversed terminals (the "R" designation) that make it very nice for SPF cars.

Ed

1795 · #18 (**permalink**) 07-29-2014, 04:36 PM

Like Ed, I have the Optima red top. Real nice battery and it does not take up a lot of room. Mine is mounted in the trunk on the top shelf behind the seats. Summit has the Optima red top with 910 CCA with both the top and side terminals (this may be the upgrade over my older battery, as mine has both top and side terminals) for $170. Having both top and side terminals has an advantage in making it easier to fit the battery into different sites in the car.

mnm99 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-30-2014, 10:19 PM

I ended up going with a Optima Yellow top battery. The CCA were high and it's a dual purpose battery. It fit perfect in the box. I must have turned over the car 20x doing checks and it's still going strong. What I found was at idle the alt isn't putting out more than 12.7v as soon as I hit the gas it jumps up to 14V. I guess this type of alt has to get excited at a certain rpm to start making power. I remember on my other car with 1 wire 140a alt I was running at 14v all the time. I changed the pulley to a smaller one to get it to do it. My Ammeter is reading +25 at idle. I can't report back yet about driving, so that may drop to 0.