Set any price you wish as Cobras (real or otherwise) are only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it.

No supply/demand laws broken.

While the overall market for Cobra sales is limited, the variety of active manufacturers is quite robust (Kirkham, ERA, Shelby CSX, Superformance, BackDraft, Hurricane, FFR, etc.). Yes there are apples and oranges in that list. But for any of them to collude on pricing would be extremely difficult to accomplish and the risks would certainly not outweigh the rewards. The inherent beauty of this small, niche market is that there are several segments (price points) to work with. Choose your poison and act with your wallet.

Hillbank provides a service for those that are less-inclined to understand what they are buying from a private seller. And if they get premium pricing for offering those assurances, then great for them. In my view, that premium pricing (or perception of same) raises all the boats in the resale market.

I can remember a few "specialty dealers" manipulating the 80's Ferrari 308 market in the 90's. The lawsuits followed, two of the four in collusion actually saw a little jail time as well as the loss of their assets due to the personal lawsuits.

I can also remember one particular dealer in NC attempting to do the same with 93,95,2000 Cobra "R" models in the 2K's. Never did hear about what the outcome of those lawsuits were, but I know he has yet to recover all he lost in both monetary, as well as his public reputation.

There have been others that take one particular car and do the same, take it to auction, shill it up to a higher than current market value, mark it as sold. Do the same at one or two other auctions in an attempt to "make the market"....Funny thing is, those cars end up back on their showroom floors, or those of their friends with the same old for sale information and no change to the ownership records.....

I won't even mention the two or three "specialty dealers" who created the current feeding frenzy for the Ford GT's....There are however plenty of folks here who know exactly who I am speaking of..

Not pointing any fingers, but I do still hear bits and pieces of what happens behind the public scene and party lines in this and other collector car circles. %/

I'll leave it at that.....

Bill S.

As I said, there's no evidence of collusion, and I'm not accusing anyone of it, but there is only ONE major manufacturer of aluminum Cobra bodies and two sellers.

Also, if you want to purchase a new KMP, ERA or CSX, for buyers that desire a more authentic replica, then the waiting periods are LONG.

Addtionally, if you want a complete fiberglass roller, then it's CSX, ERA, BDR and SPF only. IMO, Hurricane appears to sell very few replicas. The major "roller" players can dictate where market pricing goes. So I'll disagree.

Definitely apple and oranges, but back in 1980's, MLB teams were convicted of collusion against baseball players. So, I think 26 baseball teams colluded. So, the total number isn't always important.

Hmm--convicted of collusion that resulted in restraint of trade (damaging the general consumer) in the 90's on an 80's used cars sold by non OEM affiliated car dealers?

Need to see the court case filing number on that one.

Collusion might not be the right word, possibly conspiracy to defraud, or something along those lines. Road and Track and Car and Driver did articles on them back in the day.


Bill S.

He!!,

We can't even get our own group of dealers to talk much less collude!

I understand the idea and the image but if you never believe ANYTHING else I ever say or post, believe that we are nowhere organized enough to collude!!!!!

:LOL: Now that's funny... Probably because it is true.

Rick,

For the record, you were not included in my statements above...;)


Bill S.

All markets are limited in size. There are no unlimited markets, there are only larger and smaller markets. Buyers have more than enough manufacturers and replica styles / authenticity levels to choose from in our market. There is absolutely no reason that anyone should feel he is without alternatives.

The value of any item is always determined by what an arms length transaction between a buyer and seller each of whom is acting in their own best interests, free of undue pressure to trade determines that value to be. The free market system we enjoy (so far) punishes the greedy who attempt to gouge buyers and rewards the fair who price fairly.

While everyone is entitled to an opinion there is no evidence any pricing collusion to unfairly raise prices on these vehicles exists anywhere between any two entities. To suggest otherwise is just personal opinion and flies in the face of the facts. Entertaining conspiracy theory but just that conspiracy theory!

If you don't like the price of a new vehicle, that is your prerogative. If enough people feel the same as you do, the seller will ultimately have to adjust pricing if he wishes to continue to sell product at the levels he previously did. If the market sees the situation differently than you do the product continues to be sold, you just don't have any — assuming you stand on your principals.

To accuse businesses of collusive practices and activities without a scintilla of evidence, other than personal opinion, is juvenile and irresponsible — in the extreme!!


Ed

Bill,


No offense taken as one was directed at me but to even imagine that SPF dealers "collude" is proof that the accuser knows NOTHING about the SPF dealer sales "system!"

...... +1

Brilliant dissertation on economics, BTW, I love the "there are no unlimited markets" comment (:rolleyes:), but two things:

1. I mentioned on TWO occasions in this thread that: a) there's no evidence of collusion in the Cobra industry and b) that I'm not accusing anyone of collusion. I was responding "in theory." So, if someone wants to call me juvenile and irresponsible, if you were referring to me, behind their almighty keyboard, then I think they should go find themselves better reading comprehension skills.

2. Markets are imperfect. One of many examples. The stock market has an issue right now with High Frequency Traders that allegedly manipulate stock prices. And as Bill (MrMustang) mentions, S happens in the car sales and auction business. So, bury your head in the sand, if you desire.

And for further clarification, since it appears more clarification is needed, the Cobra market is more limited than, let's say, the market for Mexican restaurants in the City of San Diego. :LOL:

I've been doing that since the day you joined this forum.:cool:

Under every post of yours, there should be this disclaimer:

"The opinions of owners of beige Cobras, with faux FE's and weird looking doo-hickey things for coolant overflow, don't count."

IMHO the main advantage of a dealer such as Hillbank, is they offer a variety of different Cobra's at slighlty inflated prices. The main advantage is VARIETY... one stop shopping. Yes, I would prefer to purchase a private party Cobra... but if I want a particular color/motor, wheel/tire combo Hillbank might have it in inventory right now. Convenience might be worth the extra $$. And there is wiggle room on the price. **)

The rant was not aimed at you Rodknock (embarrassed, I forgot your real name) or Bill. It was aimed at the other posts that suggested, without evidence, a conspiratorial nature in the pricing practices of our community. I actually don't have any argument with either your position or Bill's. My issue is with the suggestion of collusive pricing practices.

Suggestions about collusive pricing practices for which there is no evidence is just not responsible. It is the equivalent of someone saying I heard that so-in-so is a bad guy without any accreditation as to the source or its own credibility. Statements without accreditation should be as offensive to us as readers as they are to the accused. By pushing back on that sort of behavior we not only discourage and discredit it but, we also discredit those who choose to traffic in that sort of misbehavior.

Don't misunderstand the argument. I am wholly in favor of calling someone out who has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Shucks, they don't even have to take a bite out of the cookie! As long as they were caught with their hand in the jar or in the act of removing the cookie from the jar, they are fair game and should be woofed on.


Ed

I agree with everything you said, especially since naming names of people and/or companies, with or without any evidence, on the Internet is probably libel and/or slander. :)