Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

It's fun to quote Carroll and try to imagine what he may have meant by certain things he said, but let's also remember he insisted the titles to the 4000-series cars read "1965 Shelby Cobra." When pressed by the DMV about the fact that a 1965 car could clearly not realistically have been built 30 years later, Carroll responded that that was just the "model number" and had nothing to to with the year of the car's manufacture. Uh-huh. He had it all figured out.

I have occasionally heard that Shelby was a Snake Oil Salesman at one time. Now I have seen some of the other stuff he has sold like Pit Stop deodorant come up for sale on eBay on rare occasions, but why is it that I have never seen the Shelby Snake Oil for sale ever? Is it that much rarer than Pit Stop deodorant?

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

It's fun to quote Carroll and try to imagine what he may have meant by certain things he said, but let's also remember he insisted the titles to the 4000-series cars read "1965 Shelby Cobra." When pressed by the DMV about the fact that a 1965 car could clearly not realistically have been built 30 years later, Carroll responded that that was just the "model number" and had nothing to to with the year of the car's manufacture. Uh-huh. He had it all figured out.

That's good info and a nice little nugget to share, I don't doubt it for one second. We've all seen a smattering of posts where the vehicle registration of various owners shows '65 Cobra or '66 Cobra, but I don't remember if some showed '65/'66 Shelby Cobra. Seeing how this thread covers many things important besides cobras (watches, tractors, motorcycles, pens etc.), maybe some can post how their replica is registered. I tried a CC search and didn't have much luck, I'm sure there is a thread on this topic.

A question for you Ned, being in a position to possibly know. Did Carroll Shelby provide input into the Registry as it evolved and grew over time? My gut tells me he had to be a contributor in some capacity, but whether he had a say in the structure, vehicle classifications and content is unknown.

[trularin]

Hmmm...

There are some SSSSEEEENNNNSSIIIITTTIIIVVVVEEEE people when it comes to this subject.

Tru

[REAL 1]

My my. You guys are still trying to establish the current production Shelby Cobras are nothing more than mere replica Cobras such as what you own. Keep at it, maybe you guys really can change the facts if you try hard enough and inveigh strongly enough.

I'll check back in a few days to see if you guys have progressed any further.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

A question for you Ned, being in a position to possibly know. Did Carroll Shelby provide input into the Registry as it evolved and grew over time? My gut tells me he had to be a contributor in some capacity, but whether he had a say in the structure, vehicle classifications and content is unknown.

Shelby did not contribute to the registry apart from allowing several SAAC members to invade his attic and go through file boxes of old papers he no longer wanted to keep. These included invoices for many Cobras and Shelbys as well as some warranty claims, etc. They really provided some previously-unknown details. I also asked him some questions about specific cars, such as his Super Snake, CSX 3015, and specific customers, such as Lance Reventlow, from whom Shelby acquired his first commercial buildings. As things progressed, however, Shelby reached the point where he had forgotten most of the details about the cars, and he would call me with questions when he needed information about a Cobra for one reason or another. He used to joke that we knew more about his cars than he did.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Shelby did not contribute to the registry apart from allowing several SAAC members to invade his attic and go through file boxes of old papers he no longer wanted to keep. These included invoices for many Cobras and Shelbys as well as some warranty claims, etc. They really provided some previously-unknown details. I also asked him some questions about specific cars, such as his Super Snake, CSX 3015, and specific customers, such as Lance Reventlow, from whom Shelby acquired his first commercial buildings. As things progressed, however, Shelby reached the point where he had forgotten most of the details about the cars, and he would call me with questions when he needed information about a Cobra for one reason or another. He used to joke that we knew more about his cars than he did.

Thanks for that info Ned.

[trularin]

Yup - sensitive.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by trularin

Yup - sensitive.

Now he's "sniper chicken", shows up, fires off a shot and then runs

[RodKnock]

I thought Evan's comment on a separate "Which GT40?" thread was interesting and pertained to our discussion here:

Which GT40?

In Evan's words: "I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40."

Hmmm. That same phrase certainly applies to his Shelby Cobra replica.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I thought Evan's comment on a separate "Which GT40?" thread was interesting and pertained to our discussion here:

Which GT40?

In Evan's words: "I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40."

Hmmm. That same phrase certainly applies to his Shelby Cobra replica.

Interesting. Evan's 100% correct. The only 'real' debatable thing with CSX4/6 Cobras is that SAI isn't licensing themselves, they have a supplier for their own product. Yes, I know, not genuine, original, et al. Just to point that it's not a perfect simile.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Interesting. Evan's 100% correct. The only 'real' debatable thing with CSX4/6 Cobras is that SAI isn't licensing themselves, they have a supplier for their own product. Yes, I know, not genuine, original, et al. Just to point that it's not a perfect simile.

Very debatable and not perfect, due to licensing in the GT40's case vs. Kirkham building a car for Shelby, but that's just paperwork legal-ese.

A modern Shelby Component Cobra is a replica of the original and can be legally called a Shelby Cobra. A close similarity IMO.

And I'm not sure how long the market will support a premium for a CSX4000 versus a Kirkham. Certainly the used Cobra market doesn't support it. I figured it out back in 2007 that the extra premium for Shelby Cobra versus a Kirkham Cobra was worth nothing to me. A plaque and a fake signature on an MSO?

[rodneym]

Rod,
I don't believe KMP's to have a premium over CSX glass. Price wise those two models have been nearly identical for as long as I've been here. The CSX ally continuations, from all I've seen, do fetch a premium (and a premium was paid at purchase). The price for some KMP's being sold now, the few that are out there, are 'asking' for CSX ally prices, but not fetching. That's always my observation.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Rod,
I don't believe KMP's to have a premium over CSX glass. Price wise those two models have been nearly identical for as long as I've been here. The CSX ally continuations, from all I've seen, do fetch a premium (and a premium was paid at purchase). The price for some KMP's being sold now, the few that are out there, are 'asking' for CSX ally prices, but not fetching. That's always my observation.

I never said KMP's have a premium over CSX alloy or glass. What I did say is that the premium between the two alloy cars narrows quite a bit as they both hit the used car market. 4pipes noted a $20,000 difference (CSX premium over KMP) , which is probably about right from what I've seen and heard.

There are two Kirkhams on eBay asking $170,000 and $190,000. Not sure what they'll fetch.

I already posted CSX4334 (alloy), asking $150,000 on Cobra Country, sold a couple months back. There are no KMP's on CobraCountry at the moment, but the last ones that I saw had fairly steep asking prices.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Interesting. Evan's 100% correct. The only 'real' debatable thing with CSX4/6 Cobras is that SAI isn't licensing themselves, they have a supplier for their own product. Yes, I know, not genuine, original, et al. Just to point that it's not a perfect simile.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I thought Evan's comment on a separate "Which GT40?" thread was interesting and pertained to our discussion here:

Which GT40?

In Evan's words: "I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40."

Hmmm. That same phrase certainly applies to his Shelby Cobra replica.

Yes. I am correct. On all counts. I don't apply double standards. There are some distinctions, however. The World Registry explains it clearly and logically. All all in Black and white.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The World Registry explains it clearly and logically. All all in Black and white.

Yup, all there in b&w. "Cobra-like" and "true replica" pop out from the page to me.

It's a genuine Shelby Cobra REPLICA, not a genuine Shelby Cobra. Those were produced in the 1960's.

To quote old Evan, "replica of the original, but a damn nice one."

[REAL 1]

Al, you can't agree with me. You obviously don't understand enough to understand that I don't understand. Only they understand that I don't understand therefore you obviously can't understand what I don't understand.

Yes, I think that makes it clear. understand?




Oey.

[rodneym]

Owners of what?

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Owners of what?

Seriously?

Originally Posted by rodneym

Money? Yes.
Big $$$? No.

And the debate doesn't need to keep going for CSX4/6's to command premiums, or big $$$.
Most owners don't set foot here.

[rodneym]

Joe,
So if an owner of a CSX4/6 is here on cc, it's because they don't "know exactly what they are"...and they have to "explain it" to the community?
Oh, boy.

Rodknock,
You have been sensitive lately, my friend. Ever since I painted the KMP.
That was a disparaging joke on the community at large, which I am a part of. Jeez.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Joe,
So if an owner of a CSX4/6 is here on cc, it's because they don't "know exactly what they are"...and they have to "explain it" to guys like you?
Oh, boy.

Rodknock,
You have been sensitive lately, my friend. Ever since I painted the KMP.
That was a disparaging joke on the community at large, which I am a part of. Jeez.

Well, what have you and RodKnock been up to lately eh? I should have known once I had to explain a very simple reply. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck ... you get the idea