Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by ASO544

That is surely one bad ass cobra. I like the Shelby way more than the Kirkman.......
of course I like both of them way more than my BDR but I was lucky to afford the BDR so both of those gems are out of my reach.

The CSX 4000 series in aluminum will be mine if I hit the lottery!!!!

You do realize the Kirkham and Shelby are the same car, except the Shelby has a heavier suspension, and cost twice as much... lol

[ASO544]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

You do realize the Kirkham and Shelby are the same car, except the Shelby has a heavier suspension, and cost twice as much... lol

Yep....just not a bare aluminum fan.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

You do realize the Kirkham and Shelby are the same car, except the Shelby has a heavier suspension, and cost twice as much... lol

Do you realize that an AC Cobra and a Shelby Cobra are the same car except that the Shelby has the same exact suspension and costs more than twice as much?

And your point is ??????? Oh, wait, yes, yes, you have finally hit on something. The Shelby name, moniker has quite a bit of inherent value. Could that be your point????

[Al G]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

You do realize the Kirkham and Shelby are the same car, except the Shelby has a heavier suspension, and cost twice as much... lol

Evan - how much of your car was built by Kirkham? I know the 50th anniversary cars are almost 100% Kirkham but I don't think that was the case for the earlier cars.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Al G

Evan - how much of your car was built by Kirkham? I know the 50th anniversary cars are almost 100% Kirkham but I don't think that was the case for the earlier cars.

Al, the only parts of my car that are Kirkham are the body and frame. All other components including brakes, wiring, plumbing, suspension, headlights, brake light lenses and everything else are from Shelby American. My car is an early alloy car having been constructed in or about 1999/2000. Alloy cars were an option made available a year or so after glass cars were being produced. As Bill Andrews at HRE advised me, back in those days SAI was still using a lot of NOS parts like original seat rails, Girling brakes, original style suspension, Hardy Spicer half shafts, trim parts etc... They wised up later and stopped using NOS stuff that they had in storage and used fabricated parts, Willwood brakes etc... all good stuff but stepped away from NOS stuff.

Bottom line a Shelby is a Shelby.

When you compare my friend's Kirkham to my Shelby, the suspension, brakes etc, etc.... are different.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Al, the only parts of my car that are Kirkham are the body and frame. All other components including brakes, wiring, plumbing, suspension, headlights, brake light lenses and everything else are from Shelby American. My car is an early alloy car having been constructed in or about 1999/2000. Alloy cars were an option made available a year or so after glass cars were being produced. As Bill Andrews at HRE advised me, back in those days SAI was still using a lot of NOS parts like original seat rails, Girling brakes, original style suspension, Hardy Spicer half shafts, trim parts etc... They wised up later and stopped using NOS stuff that they had in storage and used fabricated parts, Willwood brakes etc... all good stuff but stepped away from NOS stuff.

Bottom line a Shelby is a Shelby.

When you compare my friend's Kirkham to my Shelby, the suspension, brakes etc, etc.... are different.

And Kirkham built CSX cars of that era were splashed from a different base and contained no interchangeable parts.

The registry probably contains the cutoff point from when the Vegas built cars (which were mostly done in the prison north of the city) transitioned to the Kirkhams.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by ASO544

That is surely one bad ass cobra. I like the Shelby way more than the Kirkman.......
of course I like both of them way more than my BDR but I was lucky to afford the BDR so both of those gems are out of my reach.

The CSX 4000 series in aluminum will be mine if I hit the lottery!!!!

ASO544: Thank you. What's really important is the enthusiasm for the hobby, Cobra lore and history. That's important because without developing that in upcoming generations the car could be resigned to being lost to history and revered by only a small population of old fogies.

My Son and even my daughters know quite a bit about Shelby, Shelby Cobras and their history. More so than the common Joe, that's for sure.

[Thor maine]

That looks like a Real one next to that black Kit Car!!! (PS, it sure is a beautiful kit car)

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

That looks like a Real one next to that black Kit Car!!! (PS, it sure is a beautiful kit car)

Well let's be honest. They're both kit cars.
Neither company can deliver a factory "car". Just a kit.
Some kit cars just come more complete than others.

There's no shame in that.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Well let's be honest. They're both kit cars.
Neither company can deliver a factory "car". Just a kit.
Some kit cars just come more complete than others.

There's no shame in that.

No, actually that's not being honest. You as others want to apply the general definition of "kit car" that applies to an entire range of cars such as Gazelles, Meyer Manx Dune buggies, Beck Spyders etc...The general definition of Kit Car applies to all those cars whose manufacturer does not complete the manufacture of the car, sells the uncompleted car to and leaves the completion to a third party. This process exists primarily because of Federal safety and emission regulations and standards that creeped up on the motoring public in the late 60's. Even Carroll Shelby was noted to have remarked he could not continue production as he did and could not continue to build what he wanted to build as a result of growing restrictive Federal Regulations.

If you apply the generic "Kit Car" definition as used by dictionaries and generally by various states DMV for registration purposes in fact, and I hate to break it to the gang here but the original Cobra today would be a "Kit Car" applying the dictionary or DMV definitions. It would follow the same and have to follow the same process as a Superformance for example in order for SAI to continue (wow! just stumbled into that word, interesting, no?) production of the car. If anyone thinks that if production continued today of the original series Cobra just as it was built, configured and designed without "changes" could leave SAI powered up and ready to go to dealers and end users please explain how this could be accomplished. Would love to learn.

So by todays standards the original 2000 and 3000 series cars would have to be "Kit Cars" in order to continue to be produced and sold. Irrefutable.

I and the vast majority of other Shelby Cobra owners apply and go by the SAAC definitions of "Kit Car and Replica" since this definition applies specifically and germanely to this hobby and these cars and style cars. It is the definition that applies to our world of Cobras. Not a generic definition that applies to everything from Gazelles to Dune Buggies for registration purposes and as noted to original series cars today if SAI was still popping them out uninterrupted. Shelby Cobras original series or Continuation series do NOT fall in the SAAC definition of "Kit Car or Replica". I know you are all disappointed.

Joe Blow generally uses the term "kit and replica" to ask is that a fake. When asked if my car is a "replica or a kit" I say "no, its a genuine Shelby Cobra. A continuation series Cobra." Its not a fake Shelby Cobra nor is it a replica of a Shelby Cobra. It is a Shelby Cobra. If asked if its an "original car/Cobra", I say no. I tell them its a Continuation Series Shelby Cobra. My answers are based on the World Registry not DMV. Very simple, honest, direct and easy actually.

I'm sure you guys will "keep "twisting" things in order to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Have at it. I've got my Registry right here on my desk.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

That looks like a Real one next to that black Kit Car!!! (PS, it sure is a beautiful kit car)

So you think the Kirkham is real and the Shelby is not? Please explain that twisted logic.

[Jamo]

Evan...cool it ("Joe Blow").

Everyone keep the discussion attack/name calling free or you will disappear without notice.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Evan...cool it ("Joe Blow").

Everyone keep the discussion attack/name calling free or you will disappear without notice.

Reference is otherwise understood and intended to be to "Joe Public". Will adopt the "name change" of "Joe" to be clear.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Reference is otherwise understood and intended to be to "Joe Public". Will adopt the "name change" of "Joe" to be clear.

Obviously took it to mean a reference to a particular Joe that is involved in these discussions, so if you're going to refer to a generic person, pick another name..."Evan Blow" for example.

[thorconstr]

Jamo, that's what I like about you, you're subtle.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Obviously took it to mean a reference to a particular Joe that is involved in these discussions, so if you're going to refer to a generic person, pick another name..."Evan Blow" for example.

Nah, can't use "Evan Blow". He knows too much.

I'll use Joe Public or John Q Public or even Joe Average.

[Joe's Garage]

The idea for Kirkham Motorsports started in 1994 with the mission to build the finest replicas in the world.
About

How does one "un-replica" a replica?

[csx4910]

On the topic of Mexico vs South Africa cars, does anyone know the csx number or year they changed? Mine was finished in 2008 but roller was likely 2007 built(csx4910) I recently saw ad ad for sale of csx4911 but it wasn't finished until 2012, 4 years after mine and it got me wondering how to tell South Africa build vs Mexico for the fiberglass body
Thanks

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by csx4910

On the topic of Mexico vs South Africa cars, does anyone know the csx number or year they changed? Mine was finished in 2008 but roller was likely 2007 built(csx4910) I recently saw ad ad for sale of csx4911 but it wasn't finished until 2012, 4 years after mine and it got me wondering how to tell South Africa build vs Mexico for the fiberglass body
Thanks

I don't know the specifics as to those Shelbys. You can call HRE and speak to Bill Andrews. He is very familiar the Continuation Shelbys and their history and variations. 1 516 378 5461.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by csx4910

On the topic of Mexico vs South Africa cars, does anyone know the csx number or year they changed? Mine was finished in 2008 but roller was likely 2007 built(csx4910) I recently saw ad ad for sale of csx4911 but it wasn't finished until 2012, 4 years after mine and it got me wondering how to tell South Africa build vs Mexico for the fiberglass body
Thanks

I don't know that the HST vs HiTech build was indicated on the car. I'm sure that SAI would have the info if you wanted to know.

I was trying to find my posts for when they went out of business. I was in Vegas with my car and the clutch was leaking badly. I went over to SAI and Gary Patterson and I talked with Jean Jaime about which supplier they used for the cylinders and that was in Sept 2010. So I think they ceased operation in the first half of 2011.