Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[jhv48]

I was visiting the sacc forum a while ago and none of those guys seem to have any problem referring to their cars as replicas nor do they consider their cars to be originals.

Guess it's just Evan.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mullen2

Jaguar Brings the 1964 E-Type Racer Back to Life - WSJ

Love the E-Type! Follow the above link and watch it being built. I would bet the 6 New cars are better built than the originals. Man would I like to get my hands on one of them.

Beautiful car and I've always loved them, but they're not original and therefore replicas. Replicas built by Jaguar.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Beautiful car and I've always loved them, but they're not original and therefore replicas. Replicas built by Jaguar.

You are welcome to that opinion but I'm sure if you said that to one of those owners you would be excused from the meeting. The MSO from Jaguar will state otherwise. I'll bet your opinion would just break the heart of one of those 6 lucky people and make them turn into a babbling bowl of jelly and cause the to fall on a sword.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

May have to fact check this....is that any different than Chrysler going bankrupt being acquired by Fiat (not sure how the stock changed?) and essentially Chrylser corperation become a new company. So, the original company (CJD) no longer makes the Dodge Challenger replicas?

And the Challengers built using different materials (since the 1970s) by a different company (original Dodge) in a different era and delivered to the consumer in a considerably different fashion is a REPLICA Challenger. Both come with MSO form Dodge/Camaro and Shelby.

Only one that would hold true is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter.

First, you need to check back about 10-20 pages for the Dodge Challenger Analogy. AFAIK, there aren't any companies making replicas of the 1970 Dodge Challenger. So, it's a hypothetical. If Dodge, Fiat or Ferrari wanted to make a replica of a 1970 Dodge Challenger, then it would be replica. Not only would the company be different, the materials used would be different, the car would NOT meet Federal safety and emission standards and couldn't be sold as a complete with registration and warranty. It's 45 years after the original and would be a kit car. Just like the Shelby Cobra replica.

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

First, you need to check back about 10-20 pages for the Dodge Challenger Analogy. AFAIK, there aren't any companies making replicas of the 1970 Dodge Challenger. So, it's a hypothetical. If Dodge, Fiat or Ferrari wanted to make a replica of a 1970 Dodge Challenger, then it would be replica. Not only would the company be different, the materials used would be different, the car would NOT meet Federal safety and emission standards and couldn't be sold as a complete with registration and warranty. It's 45 years after the original and would be a kit car. Just like the Shelby Cobra replica.

I had not looked at the earlier post on the Challenger analogy but was looking at the parallels. As a hypothetical, if Dodge manufactured the chassis in 2015 (original manfactures, components, etc., is not relevant) and for argument sake offered the rolling car without the engine because they offered an OTC 426 Hemi for the customer to install it would be a kit or replica? I'm not disputing the warrantee, etc. but don't see how you can call it a replica based on the emission requirements. Who dictates that as a replica even more so with the MSO, Challenger VIN sequence? Based on your logic I see the Challenger and Shelby as geniune, authentic, whatever term you make like to state but not a replica. It's a product that was made by the manufacturer.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

I had not looked at the earlier post on the Challenger analogy but was looking at the parallels. As a hypothetical, if Dodge manufactured the chassis in 2015 (original manfactures, components, etc., is not relevant) and for argument sake offered the rolling car without the engine because they offered an OTC 426 Hemi for the customer to install it would be a kit or replica? I'm not disputing the warrantee, etc. but don't see how you can call it a replica based on the emission requirements. Who dictates that as a replica even more so with the MSO, Challenger VIN sequence? Based on your logic I see the Challenger and Shelby as geniune, authentic, whatever term you make like to state but not a replica. It's a product that was made by the manufacturer.

All new Shelby's come from either Kirkham, Hi-Tech, or HST, only, so its not a product made by the manufacturer...not from ford not from Shelby not from ac...

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

All new Shelby's come from either Kirkham, Hi-Tech, or HST, only, so its not a product made by the manufacturer...not from ford not from Shelby not from ac...

Not all manufacturers make every component of a car. I would assume a large majority of the body components are outsourced. A.O. Smith for example, made the body for Corvette and I'm sure bodies are made today by other manfacturers for auto manufacturers. Who made the body is irrelavent to and does not define it as a replica.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

I had not looked at the earlier post on the Challenger analogy but was looking at the parallels. As a hypothetical, if Dodge manufactured the chassis in 2015 (original manfactures, components, etc., is not relevant) and for argument sake offered the rolling car without the engine because they offered an OTC 426 Hemi for the customer to install it would be a kit or replica? I'm not disputing the warrantee, etc. but don't see how you can call it a replica based on the emission requirements. Who dictates that as a replica even more so with the MSO, Challenger VIN sequence? Based on your logic I see the Challenger and Shelby as geniune, authentic, whatever term you make like to state but not a replica. It's a product that was made by the manufacturer.

Since it's not original, it must be a replica. Only the original can be genuine or authentic. Anything built later will clone or replicate the original. You can call it a genuine replica or true replica, if you must, but it's an oxymoron.

The VIN sequence is meaningless, since even CSBI will producing the "competition" ("Resurrection") replicas with leftover CSX3000 numbers. These are replicas as well and the sequence will follow the original CSX3000 series cars. Also, modern cars use 17-digit VIN #'s, which weren't used in the mid-1960's.

Further the Shelby replica uses different components. So it's not an exact replica. As one example, the Shelby replica uses a thicker Kirkham body (0.059" vs. 0.500") and today's aluminum has a different metallurgical content than the mid-1960's. Also, Kirkham has automated the metal shaping and cutting process beyond even what they used to build my Kirkham in 2007.

Seriously, many pages ago, I summarized all the analogies used to prove the Shelby isn't a replica. We talked about Van Halen & Journey bands touring without their original lead singers, The Car Manufacturer Analogy (above), Watches (Rolexes), and several others.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Since it's not original, it must be a replica. Only the original can be genuine or authentic. Anything built later will clone or replicate the original. You can call it a genuine replica or true replica, if you must, but it's an oxymoron.

Maybe if you would expand your vocabulary a little bit. Add Continuation to it.

The VIN sequence is meaningless, since even CSBI will producing the "competition" ("Resurrection") replicas with leftover CSX3000 numbers. These are replicas as well and the sequence will follow the original CSX3000 series cars. Also, modern cars use 17-digit VIN #'s, which weren't used in the mid-1960's.

So, how about those Jaguars? Go ahead, try to convince Jag that they are making "replicas". If it works here, it has to work there too.

Further the Shelby replica uses different components. So it's not an exact replica....

So how about those Jaguars?

[ERANJ]

Only one that wouldn't hold true is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter?

[JBCOBRA]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

Only one that wouldn't hold tru

e is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter?

Ok Evan

[ERANJ]

Not Evan.

[JBCOBRA]

Ok Evan's wife or is this the Caitlyn version of Evan?
Nothing derogatory intended. People's sexual preference means nothing to me.

It just seems bizarre to me that you could just show up on the scene having joined in 2011 with only a handful of posts. No car no pictures, no posts, nothing. No previous comments or anything.

Show us a picture of your car. Should be in ERA of some sort. So let's see it

[JBCOBRA]

Two
You NEED to do some homework

[JBCOBRA]

Yes! I want one too. The craftsmanship is truly Amazing!!
Niche market compared to Cobras, but maybe Kirkham would consider it? Please

[mullen2]

I would guess Jaguar would not allow any one to copy their cars.

[JBCOBRA]

I could swing a check for 225k I realize it is Way more complicated than a Cobra.
Maybe 260
Also thinking about a Singer 911 but would rather have the Jag......

[Joe's Garage]

No AC Cars Ltd, no AC Cobra.
Note that they WERE referred to as AC Cobras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra

Note the sidebar info -
Manufacturer: AC Cars

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

No AC Cars Ltd, no AC Cobra.
Note that they WERE referred to as AC Cobras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra

Note the sidebar info -
Manufacturer: AC Cars

Please page 40 of the 1965 CAR and Driver stating Shelby as the Manufacturer.

1965 Shelby Cobra 427 – Road Test – Car and Driver
Downlaod PDF to view technical info where it is listed.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

No AC Cars Ltd, no AC Cobra.
Note that they WERE referred to as AC Cobras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra

Note the sidebar info -
Manufacturer: AC Cars

No question without AC there would be no Cobra as we now know it. But for anyone who thinks AC is primarily responsible for the developments that changed the Ace Chassis into the Cobra chassis they are smoking crack. It was CS and SAI that directed and requested the vast majority of changes to the chassis to get to the "Cobra" chassis.

The "AC Cobra" existed under license from SAI. No license no AC Cobra.

Read up and come back and play.