Polished Kirkham with V12 engine at London

[olddog]

I just looked at a Kirkham at the London show, with a V12 in it. The Valve cover said 800+ on it. I assume that was cubic inches. I talked to the ower's wife (let's say ultimately the true owner) for a bit. Every time she told me the manufacture's name someone would drop the hammer on a burnout. I gather the engine was some type of boat engine, and only a couple dozen or so were built. She said Kirkham special built the car around the engine. I may have gotten some of the facts wrong. It was noisy.

This car was neat to see. I wish I had heard it run. Looked like some type of velocity stacks. Perhaps EFI. I had a couple chairs on my back so I couldn't get real close. I sure would like to hear some more on this car.

[spdbrake]

Some details and pics in this thread
"SHELBY"s Featured @ CARS N COFFEE 03/04

[Bartruff1]

The fact that something can be done...is not a good reason for doing it...

[Karl Bebout]

I saw this car at the Cars and Coffee in Scottsdale last spring. I understand that since it isn't powered by an engine representation by Ford, some folks look down on it, but it is still one heck of a car. Of course, being a Kirkham, puts the quality in the clouds but the engineering required: A. to develop and manufacture the 860 cu in engine and B. to "make it work" in the car are outstanding.
Its not an original, its not a "continuation" aka SPF, its not an AutoKrafters', its a man's personal choice of Hot Rod. His money, his car. More power to him.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Th3e fact that something can be done...is not a good reason for doing it...

If you cannot appreciate that car, then you are not a car guy.

[MKS427]

I saw this and spoke with the owner at Cars and Coffee too. He actually aquired two of these engines to put one together. It actually blew up on the dyno and two cylinders had to be sleeved, before it was ever in the car. A custom shortened tailshaft and housing was necessary for the TKO 600 to fit. The six cylinder header/sidepipes were done to perfection, as well as the rest of the car.
I did look up the engine. Torque Engineering from Elkhart Indiana, out of business around 2003, was the manufacturer. 860 cu in with ~ 1150 hp.

[mdross1]

That has to be a fun car to drive I'm certain it produces copious lb ft of torque.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by MKS427

I saw this and spoke with the owner at Cars and Coffee too. He actually aquired two of these engines to put one together. It actually blew up on the dyno and two cylinders had to be sleeved, before it was ever in the car. A custom shortened tailshaft and housing was necessary for the TKO 600 to fit. The six cylinder header/sidepipes were done to perfection, as well as the rest of the car.
I did look up the engine. Torque Engineering from Elkhart Indiana, out of business around 2003, was the manufacturer. 860 cu in with ~ 1150 hp.

"The V-12 is available in three model variants: Torque 1000, 1100 and 1200, with the 1200 producing a formidable 1,150 horsepower (858 kW) at 5,500 rpm and 1,150 foot-pounds (1560 Nm) of torque at 4,800 rpm."

"The 90-degree cylinder block and heads, four in total, are aluminum alloy castings contributing to a very light total (dry) weight of 1,212 pounds (550 kg). All three models are naturally aspirated and feature multi-port EFI controlled by an advanced engine management system."

First Look: Torque Engineering V-12 - boats.com

I suppose on a pounds/HP basis a 1200+ lbs engine may be considered "very light", but it would still create weight distribution and handling issues in a Cobra. Regardless, you can get far better pounds/HP numbers on a number of other naturally-aspirated engines (e.g. 800 HP on a 385-series running pump gas), never mind what you can do with a force-fed engine.

There's no doubt that engine in that car has lots of WOW factor but, other than that, there are better ways to put mega-horsepower in a Cobra, IMO.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

The fact that something can be done...is not a good reason for doing it...

Originally Posted by Karl Bebout

I understand that since it isn't powered by an engine representation by Ford, some folks look down on it....

...its a man's personal choice of Hot Rod. His money, his car. More power to him.

Yes. The car is a driveable show car, and an example of one man's personal tastes.

It's totally function-less as a performance automobile. You can't keep the tires stuck to the ground anywhere above 1/2 throttle, and Jeff (the owner) said it burns fuel like a cruise ship

But let's face it- polished Kirkhams, by their nature, are already "over the top" car-art to begin with. It makes perfect sense (to me) to combine the most over the top, polished aluminum car-art engine you can find, with your polished, billet suspended, over the top car-art Kirkham roadster...

To me, it's a perfect marriage. Tastefully done, well engineered, and totally over the top...

Completely impractical, ridiculously expensive, and painfully obnoxious. I love it. {applause}

[C427Kirkham]

Hey everybody, what a build that was! We redesigned the chassis to accommodate the size of the engine, as well as the foot boxes, and heat shields. The heat shield had to be pressed up against the dashboard, and there is no room for your feet in the boxes. The transmission was specially designed short to account for the excess size. The drive shaft was pretty stubby too! To get the engine into the car we had to turn it almost all the way on its end and drop it straight down. Then slowly rotate it inch by inch to keep squeezing it all the way into the car. It took almost every guy here to get it in there. We had to take off the valve covers, fuel rails, and several other parts to get it inside.

We designed the cobra specially for the engine. To my recollection, the engine is a modified Chevy 450 big block specially made for race boats. Not many were made at all. The owner of the car took his engine to be dynoed. While it was running, cylinder 6 started throwing black smoke. They shut it down and found that it had crunched one of the valves, and it didn't even care. It just kept running. Did a number on everything inside though, so after he got the whole mess fixed and put back together, we finished out the car. We didn't start it however which was no fun for the guys here at the shop. We really wanted to hear it run!!! It was an 860 cubic inch engine and was in the territory of 1200 horses. Quite the build for us!

Chris Kirkham
Kirkham Motorsports

[Phx Mike]

Bunch of us saw Jeff's car at the cars and coffee last spring. It's a brute. Heard it run and it sounds just like a Rolls-Royce Merlin V-12 less the supercharger whine. You could feel the concussion of every cylinder several feet away. Pretty awesome.

[hinoonaz]

He was at the Good Guys in the spring and again at cars and coffee. I agree times 10 with Moore RB opinion. Unbelievable. Move a foot and see another mod and fabrication. A true total work of art that sounds like a Merlin or a very large Jaguar V-12. The side pipes would be art on a wall if the wife would let me. Gary

[Cracker]

This thread is worthless without pictures!!! :lol:

[AZCobra12]

I have tried to load some photos of the V12 Kirkham but have not figured how to do it yet. There are more than a few picture of the Cobra at the Kirkham Forum: Kirkham Motorsports Tour August 2016. Thanks for the interest and hope to have the car running right this fall and have to out to the shows.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Cracker

This thread is worthless without pictures!!! :lol:

[Cracker]

Thank you...beautiful project! Are you not running any filtration (beyond the screens) on the throttle bodies?

Tony

[AZCobra12]

It has been a crazy project from the begining that was started in May of 2011, titled in January 2017. Any normal guy would have stopped long ago with all the setbacks involved. It is almost done and turned out better than I thought possible!

No socks at this time. We are still dealing with, backfiring, airflow balancing, linkage sync, etc. The socks would be off and on a dozen times already in a few miles. There will be sock on them shortly once a good tune is done. It looks really good without them though!

This engine was not meant to operate at less than 1/2 throttle in 10,000lb race boats, so there are added challenges putting it in a 2600lb car. Very little throttle is needed, the butterfly's are 72mm that are stock. Smaller would be better!!

[Cracker]

Well congratulations on sticking with the project - I do not have the patience for 6-year builds, honestly. I am sure your tuners are top-notch considering this project as a whole but you will want a tune with the socks on - A/F will be impacted. Keep us up to date as things progress...

PS: I am sure it might be listed already but how big a fuel-tank is installed???

Tony

Originally Posted by AZCobra12

No socks at this time. We are still dealing with, backfiring, airflow balancing, linkage sync, etc. The socks would be off and on a dozen times already in a few miles. There will be sock on them shortly once a good tune is done. It looks really good without them though!

[AZCobra12]

Thanks on the build,
The tuning issues are not airflow... ECM Lambda feedback and ignition timing are off a lot. Run OK on the Dyno but no good for street driving.

Fuel tank is the biggest Kirkham made at 40 gallons..... good for 70-80 miles on this tune!!! That is jut putting around on the street. It is a boat engine and drinks like a fish!! I hope to get 5-6MPG so I can go on a few trips.

[olddog]

What type of EFI is running this engine? Is it using a Alhpa-N (throtttle position) strategy or Speed Density (MAP) strategy? With the velocity stacks, I doubt you are using Mass Flow.

The reason I ask is that I have gotten help from a fellow in Louisiana that has designed an EFI system that was capable of more than I can tell you. It can do Alpha-n and speed density, too, but it is also capable of running 8 Mass Flow sensors and 8 O2 sensors for true individual cylinder control, for certain. It was developed or marketed to a marine engine builder. I'm pretty sure it was more than 8 cylinder, but not sure if it was 12. Since 10 cylinders are not common, it was likely 12.

This guy is a gear head, car guy, and more interested in helping fellow gear heads than most people you ever meet. When I talked to him about it. He said he was definitely thinking about solving all the problems with 8 stack EFI systems as he was designing it. I am sure he would love to put one on your engine and would work hard to make your engine run perfect. The cost was real close to other EFI system you can buy, if memory serves me. Of course if you did go 12 Mass Flow and 12 O2 sensors, you would have a lot of money in sensors, but you wouldn't have to go that route.

Here is a link to a Post of mine on this subject back when I talked to him last. It has his phone number, if interested.
8 Stack EFI New ECU Option Offer