Getting ready to pull heads

[tortuga]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Had similar oil consumption problems with mild 460. I replaced my valve stem seals as well, but that had little effect.

Turns out the root cause was the intake manifold gaskets weren't properly sealed, allowing oil to be sucked from the valley into intake ports. Drain coolant, pull the intake manifold and carefully inspect the gaskets for signs of leakage.

Done that drill lke 5 times now, finally ended up with flatout 0.120 gaskets, trimmed the tops so that the inward taper on the upper part of the heads didn't force the gaskets down, maximized the area on the bottom where the intake bears...Think thats a problem with these big port head there isn't but like 3/8" of gasket area at the bottoms of the intake ports...

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by tortuga

Done that drill lke 5 times now, finally ended up with flatout 0.120 gaskets, trimmed the tops so that the inward taper on the upper part of the heads didn't force the gaskets down, maximized the area on the bottom where the intake bears...Think thats a problem with these big port head there isn't but like 3/8" of gasket area at the bottoms of the intake ports...

Did you smear a thin layer of RTV on gaskets? Re-torque after 24 hours? Then re-torque AGAIN after engine run and heated to operating temperature?

It took ALL of the above to finally get mine to seal.

[blykins]

You simply can't put any of these engines together reliably without using sealant on both sides of the intake gaskets. Every engine I build, whether it's a Windsor, Cleveland, FE, etc., gets the gaskets glued to the heads, and sealant between the gasket and the intake.

[tortuga]

Originally Posted by blykins

You simply can't put any of these engines together reliably without using sealant on both sides of the intake gaskets. Every engine I build, whether it's a Windsor, Cleveland, FE, etc., gets the gaskets glued to the heads, and sealant between the gasket and the intake.

All the gasket makers say to go commando...but I’m getting so quick at swapping out the manifold these days I may have another go...interestingly enough I read a review on summit where a guy does the same: glues (permatex aviation sealant) the gasket to the head, sets it by snugging down the intake, waits, then checks and then glues the intake to the gasket.

Another thing, whatever is going on seems equal in all holes as the plugs all look the same...

Steve H

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by blykins

You simply can't put any of these engines together reliably without using sealant on both sides of the intake gaskets. Every engine I build, whether it's a Windsor, Cleveland, FE, etc., gets the gaskets glued to the heads, and sealant between the gasket and the intake.

Which glue/sealant are you recommending at heads, intake, and china wall?
Thanks,
Mark

[ERA 626]

valley machine in livermore

[olddog]

When you pull the intake this time, look for oil on top of the intake valves. If there is oil there, look for oil in the intake runner, especially on the bottom. By look I mean feel.

Since you will have the valve covers off, you can squirt oil right on the valves (through the springs). See if you can prove the valves are leaking or rule them out.

PS
While the intake and gaskets are off, you should check the intake angle. When people mill heads down, they also need to mill the angle on the intake.

Blykins can better describe the best way to do this check, but here's my attempt. Set the intake on with the old gasket on one side. No gasket the other side. Snug up the side with a gasket. Then use feeler gauges to measure the gap between the head and intake on the non gasket side. Check at the top and bottom on both ends (gap should be the same top and bottom). Everything should be clean, so if the old gasket has RTV ect on it use a new gasket.

I have heard of other methods, that I cannot recall. I think there should be a way to use silly putty, but I have not done this. You would need to be careful not to let any drop into the oil drains, so maybe not a good idea.

[olddog]

It sounds like the oil consumption may be somewhere else.

When you do pull the engine, it would be interesting to place a bright light in the lifter gallery. Leave the gaskets out between the intake and block, front and back, to allow the electric cord to fit, or whatever it takes. Then snug down the intake with new gaskets. No sealers. Now run a camera down the intake ports and see if there is light shining into the ports on the bottom. You would need to check all ports. If there is no light shinning then the intake is sealing up and that is not the problem. If there is light, then I suspect there is an angle wrong, and it will never seal until it is corrected.

In the mean time, maybe a new set of valve stem seals should be attempted. That might be the sources of your problems.

[tortuga]

Soooo
I got a smoking deal on some bare Z304"P" heads, ported with slightly larger intake valves. Had Valley Head in Northridge assemble, went with some very gourmet bits putting them together.

STILL ate oil...Had my intake machined to match head angles, no joy. Took apart and followed Mr. Blykin's instructions to the tee, no luck, pulled all of the intake studs and noted that several seemed to not care much about the sealant i installed with them (Nod to RetCop). I Cleaned them up and this time used plain old Teflon plumbers tape which is rated for service up to 500 degrees...Suddenly plugs are cleaning up! I Hope Hope Hope ive finally slain this dragon, not much confidence given the hours and hours of time and literally thousands of dollars ive spent chasing it...Fingers and Toes crossed.

Next step if its not cured, as i keep threatening to do, is to pull the mill and have a pro go through it admitting defeat-which i hate to do)...

Sure appreciate all the help on the site!

Steve H
SPF 1764

[incoming]

I'm a little late to the game here but here's my 2c worth. I've used non hardening Permatex on every paper and cork gasket I've set over thirty years. A super thin layer. My Shovelheads never marked their spot from the engine, only the chain oilers.

Before assembly, I always scrub everything down with alcohol to remove any oil residue.

[Danr55]

Interesting finding on my car. Excessive fuel had washed the oil off of the cylinder walls and worn the rings to nothing. Motor was using about 1 qt. every 300 miles. Be careful to run the right size carb or you could be right back in the same spot in short order.

[tortuga]

Originally Posted by Danr55

Interesting finding on my car. Excessive fuel had washed the oil off of the cylinder walls and worn the rings to nothing. Motor was using about 1 qt. every 300 miles. Be careful to run the right size carb or you could be right back in the same spot in short order.

XP 750 always lean, idle screws 7/8-1 turn, small jets, annular boosters, no choke...

Understand the damage rich mixture can do to the cylinders...

Thanks

Steve H
SP 1764

[NROTOXIN]

Did you install the annular boosters on the XP? Downlegs come on the 750 XPs from the factory.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by NROTOXIN

Did you install the annular boosters on the XP? Downlegs come on the 750 XPs from the factory.

Yes, that is correct.
But some of us have fitted annular boosters.
I have 12 hole billet annulars in my 850 XP.
Gary

[tortuga]

I'm thinking with shop rates here in Commiefornia up around 200/hr it only takes 50 man hours to burn through 10 grand, at which point you are probably half way through trying to fix a ($11K) problem engine with no guarantee of success?

I'm thinking it almost makes more sense to buy a COMPLETE SORTED TRURN-KEY engine and put this one on a stand to slowly go through it myself (with the help of machine shops)...

Problem is everyone has their favorite engine builder and the reviews range from wanting to let the guy marry his daughter to pending litigation.

I'm on the fence as to weather its time to just move on to something less mysterious? Sucks as i thought that a little car with a big simple engine would be really care free, but boy was i wrong...

Steve H
1764

[tortuga]

Originally Posted by NROTOXIN

Did you install the annular boosters on the XP? Downlegs come on the 750 XPs from the factory.

Quick Fuel Main body, and jetted down to match what their built 750 is with annulars as a baseline...Did it for drivability and throttle response.

[NROTOXIN]

Originally Posted by tortuga

Quick Fuel Main body, and jetted down to match what their built 750 is with annulars as a baseline...Did it for drivability and throttle response.

You took a 750 Ultra XP PN 0-80803 and replaced the main body with a Quick Fuel or was it some other Holley PN?

[redmt]

2 highly recommended engine builders.
Bell & Gaines in Modesto and Brent Lykins in Kentucky.

[blykins]

I use Dow Corning 732.