Excaliber:

Unless I am reading you wrong, I think the Ferrari mph advantage is what motivated SAI toward the development of the Daytona Coupe not the 427 roadster.

Andy Dunn, thanks. I haven't read the whole thing yet, it's quite long.

Cal, Jeff, I was wrong. Just that so much mis-information is posted by just about everybody (mostly in good faith) at times, including myself, sometimes I don't know what to believe or not. However, sometimes I got to see the cold facts before changing my opinion.

I'm still trying to find that Dick Smith article. I'm not sure if I read it in "Cobras" magazine, or one of the kit car mags sometime ago, or in the Shelby American.

JM Maybe you should visit the Motorsports Library in downtown WG. They have the biggest archive of magazines, books and other sorces you could imagine. If it ain't in there, it probably isn't anywhere. Just have to get there a day early, or run down during lunch on Friday. I think it closes about 4 or 4:30. Or if my luck runs true to form, I'll have a little time to go my self.

Off to NHIS Fri to break it in, and get ready for my yearly clutch destruction in NY.

McFEz

The article on Dick Smith's cobra is in "COBRAS" Magazine, Spring 1993, vol #1, #1.

I can't find my issue at the present moment. It should turn up in the next year or so.

"Swerving" back to one of the earlier questions, I recall reading a few years back (in Guinness Book of World Records) that Mark Donohue set the fastest speed ever recorded during a race at a track in Europe in a Porsche 917-30, at 257 MPH, and read on a Porsche site last night that Jackie Oliver in a 917-30 set a record fastest speed ever recorded for a practice run of 396 KPH in 1971 at during Le Mans night (!) testing on L' Hunnadieres (?) straight. Now where are those conversion tables...

Mr.0O77
=======
Those records can't be true, wait a second and the engineers on this board will confirm it.
Unless they consider the Porsche a sb and then for sure you won't be opposed.

I'll ruin my nails!
 

Jamo,

Thanks for getting in touch with Dick.

Now...in regards to the waxing......you can get it out of me in trade. I'll be happy to provide a "McDetailing" to your Kirkham Slab Side when you get it, much like I did to the Kirkham Auction car at the NY Auto Show.

computerworks (Ron) can vouch for my obsessive nature!!! :D :D :D

Since when did this 198 topic have anything to do about BB or sb? I doubt the ability of a roadster to run 198 with 5-600 hp no matter whose engine or how many cubes. I am talking aerodynamics not cubes.Perhaps todays 800 hp engines could overpower the wind resistance of 200, I just doubt it was done 30 years ago. Show me the proof and I will agree with all you BB guys.(since you are the guys who beleive it was done)
BTW why has that accomplishment of 30 plus years ago never been duplicated? I find it hard to beleive that sombody hasn't tried to break a record like that..
Speed records of all types keep getting broken in all types of moter sports but nobody has ever broken 198. I wonder why?

Cranky

For what it's worth, Mark Donohue for many years held the world closed-course speed record in the 917/30, set at Talledega in, I think, 1975. The speed was around 221 mph, I seem to recall. I don't think that record was beaten until Olds built the Aerotech and ran it at a tire testing track in West Texas sometime in the 80's. My knowledge of the record since then is hazy (or even hazier). I too recall a Mercedes--perhaps a Group C car--setting the record at the Nardo test track in Italy, but it seems that it is currently held by an Indy, er, Champ car.

Mr0077,
Well done. Theres some fuel for the fire,,,,,,,,,,

SB vs BB? Well, in this crowd, thats a given!

CalMetal:
The "timeline" of the creation of the "Turd" and the developement of the "Coupes" is interesting to contemplate. "Houston", had a problem, Ferraris with a higher top speed. The first and easiest solution would seem to me to stuff that NASCAR 427 in the corner of the shop into an existing Cobra body, a potential immediate "cure".

The Coupes were the "ultimate" solution. Ford was working on it's own solution, the GT-40. One thing was clear: Ferrari had to be beat, there was no other option.

Amazing how hard it is to accurately get data on "speed records". The last I "heard" was Mercedes still holds the "closed course" record, faster than 234 as I'm sure thats what Bill Elliot ran. No doubt, records fall, so maybe it's the "champ" car these days?

I'm satisfied that Dick Smith ran AT LEAST 198, for myself, that issue has been resolved. I look forward to seeing a pic of his "certificate" posted here!

Ernie

JM
You bring your secret stuff, I'll bring the Windex. ("windexer" not "waxer"):LOL: Trust me--it's always a pleasure talking to him.

Cranky
Assolutely agree with you--I certainly never saw this a a BB v SB thing, though some may have come across that way.

So, on the one hand, we have the unrefuted testimony of the person who did it, official documentation in the form of a signed certificate by France, several precepient witnesses (not just Bony), mathematical calculations indicating it was possible, and comparisons drawn from like circumstances also collaborating the feat. I will post a pic of the certificate when I get it--Dick is busy harvesting his grapes right now, but it will be soon.

On the other hand, we have the pronounced doubts of some folks--several of whom are highly regarded. No precipient witnesses. Some disagreement regarding the interpretation of mathematical computations--but nobody able to say, without reservation, that it was impossible. The fact that the feat has not been verifiably duplicated or exceeded is interesting--but nothing more, especially when one considers that the particular vehicles were only raced for a few more years before becoming cherished museum pieces.

We await magazine reports--which are opinions only (for either side of the issue).

My friend, I would take that case on behalf of Mr. Smith any day. The preponderance of the evidence available at this juncture is beyond substantial. I wished half the cases I take to trial (and win) were this good. Course--I'm also glad that there are few judges on the bench as cranky as you.

But hey--bench racing (per Mr. Bruce) means never having to say you're sorry. :LOL: Thanks Roger--for keeping your part of the discussion in the vein of talking about the occurance of an event rather than a personal attack--that's all I ever asked.;)

So the defense rests it case?

Ha ha! Who would have thought such a seemingly simple question would result in such a protracted discussion!

Gotta love bench racing!

Ernie

Again, for what it's worth...
 

...which is almost exactly nothing, in doing a search on the web I found a press release from 2000 indicating Gil de Ferran had just set the world closed-course speed record in his Champ car, at 241.428 mph, at Fontana, CA. The release indicated that the old record had also been held by a Champ car, set in 1997.

Bob,
I should have been more specific. Why has nobody broken the 198 "record" in another Cobra roadster?

RD

RACER X

That IS a good question! I wonder too........

Ernie

Cranky
As I opined in our discussion over at the Net--probably because the cars were only run competively for a few more years before they became cherished museum pieces. Obviously--replicas have few venues for racing.

SnakeEyes:

The closed course record was set in 1987 by AJ Foyt in the Oldsmobile Aerotech at 257 mph.

Jeff.
Was that bb or a sb in the Aerotech??

Very small block. :CRY::CRY::CRY: In fact it was only a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder based off of the Olds. Quad Four that was heavily turbocharged and producwd 1,200 hp!

1987? That was a long time ago! So what gives? Must be different "classes" or something? That "Olds" looks like a one of a kind (One of a kind Class)? And what kind of Mercedes did it? How would Bill Elliots car be classified? Like Bonneville must have a zillion different classes, wonder how that works for the "Closed Course" record. Would HATE to see Art Arfons and his "jet" mobile out there setting new records, for instance.

And how would that "Olds" do at Bonneville anyway?

Ernie