Well I dont think the dealers helped at all eithier...Tryin for $5-10k over sticker... I think there are more on ebay than anything else.. greed helped kill it...

Dan

I agree.

It never made sense to charge OVER sticker for a car that wasn't selling.

Every time Ford makes an exciting car they either make a very limited quantity or charge too much for it. For example:

2002 R code Mustang

2003 390hp Cobra Mustang

2004 Ford GT

T-Bird..
 

...Yes, Ford DID make some marketing errors with the car BUT this is also a VERY fickle market segment. The cars were selling for way over sticker when the first hit the market. The "Needless Markup" versions sold out in a few hours. Customers argued with dealers for the first car, one dealer I know kept his first car for himself (he even actually paid the dealership for it, no "perpetual floor plan") and had customers ragging on him to sell it.

But the worm turns quickly, once the pipeline was full and the "early adaptors" had the car they paid too much for, this is the time when marketing needs to crank up to keep momentum. This is where Ford and others (read GM) often fall down. Example-local dealer suddenly has FIVE 2002 Birds in stock, all equipped with the $10K "Market adjustment sticker" added to the cars......Too many cars in stock, usual Ford dealer solution? DISCOUNT 'em! They have just destroyed the market and the image of the car.

I have seen this happen before and even been involved in such foolishness. When Ford introduced the SVO Mustang in late 1983 any dealer could order the car, there was no such network as with todays SVT dealers. Soon most dealers had one....and then two as they had backed up the order with another to replace the anticipated quick sale of the first car. Said first sale did not take place and NOW WE HAVE TWO OF 'EM? Get ridda 'em! How? DISCOUNT!!!! This is how they destroy the image and value of the product. You don't see Rolexes being discounted because the jeweler has a couple, they know they will sell them and order appropiate volumes. Auto dealers tend not to due to lead times and the greed factor...I want what is hot until it is not...

I also saw this happen when I imported the AC MK IV in the 80s, once the dealer had a car and it had not sold they panicked knowing another was on the way. Once more they started the discount monster and ruined the image of the car. Understand there was less markup on these than you might have expected and once discounted there was very little profit for the dealer. Gee, when you don't make much on a sale how inclined are you towards servicing the customer? What type of treatment will you provide to the customer base?

This is a self fullfiling operation that will only go down hill. Coupled with a specialty car market that makes the "latest and greatest' the thing to have, a product like the Thunderbird becomes stale quickly in the market. It will happen with the new Caddy and whatever else comes along in this market segment.

Rick:(

Mark- you've got it right all right. But least we don't forget, a few other true success storys pop up from time to time. I think Chrysler has led that retro charge by in large with the Viper, Prowler and most of all the P.T. Cruiser. To me the bird doesn't have its own identity and unlike the P.T. Cruiser it doesn't have a good price point. First I heard of doing away with the bird though!
:eek: :eek: Cobrashock

The first thing that struck me about the styling was the front end which to me appeared to be weak, probably the head light styling. For aerodynamic and safety reasons, they couldn't produce something that resembled the original T-Bird head light design but I'm sure they could have come up with something that made a better statement than what they settled for. To me, the rest of the car looks pretty good.

I went to see them when they first came out. Ford put on a really big deal with a bunch of 55s, 56s, 57s, and new Birds all side by side. The reps talked about this being a performance car then told me it had 2?? HP (sorry can't remember). I told them then and there that it was under powered. I never understood why they didn't use the DOHC 4.6 which was 305 HP at the time. If it would fit in a Mustang, it surely would fit in a Bird.

Ford, like many other big auto producers, are interested in volume and they don't seem willing to stick with a model that doesn't sell a big number of units. I wonder if they are going to continue to make the Lincoln LS which is a great car but never seemed to live up to sales expectations.

Wayne

I took my wife to the auto show in Cleveland to get her psyched on the T-Bird... She saw the new Mustang and forgot all about the T-Bird... I still think the T-Bird is the car for her but she knows what she wants... It'll be the Mustang...

Price does NOT kill a car. Over-sticker does not hurt the car either.

If it did!!
Harley Davidson would have bikes coming out of their ears. They don't!.

Supply and demand!
Not much has changed in that department in the last 100 or so years.

Turk-
I generally agree with you, but you can't overlook the impact of pricing on demand. Demand is typically (although not always) inversely related to price- the higher the price, the lower the demand and conversely, the lower the price, the higher the demand.

The T-Bird's price was set by Ford and was not a result of the traditional economic theories of supply and demand- it's not as if the demand for the car was so great and suppply so small that it drove the price up (as is the case with CSXs or Harley's). If demand were great, Ford obviously woudn't be pulling the plug and the car would have sold no matter what the cost- like Harley's or CSX's

In this case, demand for the T-Bird was not high, which lead Ford to kill it. Would demand have been higher at a lower price? Possibly, but who knows?

Alternatively, you could say that demand was not good at that price. Maybe Ford could have designed the car differently (aluminum 427) to increase the demand at that price.

For instance, I would have bought one at $25k, but not at $40k.

That's my .02

Mike

When I first saw the TB I was thinking they could brobably get away with 30-35g's tops. That was assuming that they did a class job on it. I think those who paid $40 were just about out of their mind!!!

New York Auto ShowT
 

I saw the t-bird sitting sadly in a corner of the Ford display. It was like a wake around the car.
If Mercury is smart, they will have a real winner with the Messenger. In my eyes it will be on of the greats. It has all the ingredients.

Unfortunately, Ford has a history of "messing up" their "niche" cars. Remember the Merkur Scorpio and XR4ti? More recently, 1. the Marauder, with no 400 HP engine option. Also, no two-door convertible. 2. The under-powered Thunderbird. 3. No "standard" 300 HP 4.6/5.4 engine output. 4. Not releasing the Phaeton Explorer that I had seen at a consumer-research clinic. 5. The probe. Possibly the name. 6. The Cougar, underpowered and under-advertised.

It may not hurt the car, but if my dealer tried to go over sticker on me, I'd change dealers. When Honda S2000's were going over sticker, my Ford guy was going to get me one(from the dealer's Honda store) for my wife at sticker. I prefer to pay invoice, but I appreiate the guy offering to cut me what I felt was a fair deal.

Edley,

Yea, but once in awhile they really do it right.... Can't wait for the new Mustang...

'Leenie: I hope they put the IRS in the 'Stang...looks like the T-bird aint gonna be using 'em!

IMO Ford really messed up with the T-bird. The styling is nice but Ford turned it into a chick car by underpowering it and not offering a standard trans. The pastel colors and lack of a more agressive exhaust didn't help either.
Over-sticker priceing didn't hurt the C5 Corvette. Until the economy took a plunge in 2000 it was difficult to buy a C5 Vert without adding a premimun over sticker. I realize the demand for the C5 has slowed because of the C6s arrival next year but not to the extent of 4k discounts and 0% financing for 5 years. Its the economy. Look what its done to the used Cobra prices. If Ford had launched the T-bird in 97 with more power, a stick etc they would not have had a problem with sales. Ford really got hit with the one two punch.

That porthole window is the worst...they should have left that in the past!

Southerfriedhomebuilder,

I take it there is no such thing as "supply and demand" in your line of work.
I didn't say it doesn't hurt your relationship with your dealer, I said it wouldn't hurt the car.

Some of us may have bought the car at $25,000. That is true.Not enough of us would have, to make it a viable car in the market. They would have sold a few more and instead of pulling the plug on it now , they would have gotten another 2 or three months of production.

Let's face it....It got a lot of hopes up, "retro" and that kind of talk, and then it let us down. It was a flop.
It is NOT a nice car. It is butt ugly.
End of the story.

It lacked performance, it also lacked the "retro". Couple of taillights do not make a retro.

I understand a car can be priced too high, but the market is full of vehicles and motocycles that are priced high. As long as the demand is there, the dealers are able to move them of their lots at full sticker and then some.

As a GM employee, I knows what I talk about when it comes to ugly, and also I live with inability to sell cars not on demand by lowering the price. When folks don't want a certain car for it's looks (primarily) no amount of price concessions, rebates, seem to make a significant difference.

Whereas some makes and models have been very succesful in the market place, in spite of the price, and free of discounting. Why? because we are all lined up to buy them!.

TURK

Chaplin,
Mike generally you are correct when you agree with me. This is one time you may be wrong!

:3DSMILE: :3DSMILE:
TURK

Thanks Turk,

I needed a good laugh this morning!

"As a GM employee, I knows what I talk about when it comes to ugly" Turk

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

The Subaru WRX is not an really an attractive car, but the power to price ratio makes it work. Why couldn't Ford use this philosophy?

Paul

Turk-
You're right, I generally agree with you when you're right, but when I don't, it's probably because you're wrong. So, if you're wrong, I'm probably right, but if I'm right, you could be either wrong or right, depending on whether you agree that I'm right. So, even when I'm right, you, at best, only have a 50% chance of being right :JEKYLHYDE :JEKYLHYDE :3DSMILE: ;) :D

But there is one thing I completely agree with you on (which, for those not paying attention, means we're both right) and that is that the T-Bird was a flop and Ford let us (and the T-Bird heritage) down big time.:(