Motorcycle vs Cobra
 

In my experience, high performance street bike vs high performance cobra (my west coast) the cobra brakes much better in general (admittedly with some large power discs all around) Much of this is also due to the larger contact patch and the sticky Pirellis. This would be much more so on wet pavement.
A bike (Or car) gets most of it's braking power from the front brakes, and this, on a bike is a tenuous, unstable, small patch of rubber to clamp a pair of disc brakes onto in a crisis. Add road sand or grit and a bike loses it completely. Mayhaps the apparent better traction on motorcycles with higher HP/weight ratios is due to the relative weight ratio on the rear tire, vs a car? Someone could do the math and see if that makes sense. But it seems with similar power to wt ratios, a bike has a bit better traction off the line, and does not seem to "lose it" as easily when opened up fully in a corner. Could be bike geometry also ?

Hi KobraKarl, maybe I will see you at some of the upcoming meets. I will be the guy walking around with no Cobra asking questions you've probably heard before, over and over ;-). Yea, maybe the braking response thing holds merit. Then we could possibly argue that anyone foolish enough to drive beyond a cars braking capability (on the street) is in for a surprise anyway.

would I swap my side oiler for a mild 351??? That, helps me reinforce my original thought on engines. Build something that "you" are going to have fun with. Is it practical, probably not. Does it make sense, most likely the answer would also be no. Does it bring a smile to you, only when it's running :-)

BiB, actually bikes do loose it in the back end quite a bit. That's what known as a highside, to me it's probably the worst kind of crash to the bike and the rider.

Tom "Stop sign, what stop sign" Stimach

"I notice that everyone here who has or is building a Cobra wants 500+ hp.

WHY?"

Because we can. It's the American way - bigger is better. Don't get me wrong - I agree, no one on the street NEEDS that much horsepower. But we still want it. My 300 or so HP is really quite adequate - but there are days when I think "man, wouldn't it be nice to put a supercharger on this thing..."

Why do manufacturers build cars that are capable of speeds that are illegal anywhere in the world?
Why do we now have pizza with more cheese stuffed into the outer crust?
Why do we buy Excursions when an Explorer would suffice?

Because we just want more. The key is control. Just because my motorcycle COULD pull wheelies in 4th gear on the freeway, doesn't mean I'm fool enough to do so. And yet, although I never would, I still want a bike that can.

Human nature is weird that way.

None of us were there, so we don't know for sure what exactly happend. How fast do you have to be going to roll a cobra several times? Faster than you should be going, thats how fast. Richard is correct. I know that if I had spent more time and money on chassis prep and driver, my cobra would be faster on the road course with less power. Yes, if richard designed, drove, and sorted all cobra's and they had 300hp or less, they would be much more driver controllable then the cobra's on the road today. The bottom line is, cobra's are not well set up vehicles. They don't come from a factory that tests them under various conditions. Go drive a 911, viper, zo6 or m5. Almost anyone on this forum could go fast the first time out on a road course and not wreck these cars. They are very forgiving. Go hop in somebody elses cobra and try to go fast the first time out on a road course, and you have a 50/50 shot at some landscaping adventures. So, go fast in your cobra on the street and when it does something that you are not expecting, I hope you can catch it before the tree/curb/car/person/ditch/lightpole. The track is a better venue to find out what the cobra will do when you brake late, turn late, apply too much throttle, skid, etc.. The reason we all like to drive these things fast is the thrill we get when that little bit of dopamine is released from our brain. I have always said when asked at the track after driving the cobra(358, 660hp), how was it? answer, " Its like taking drugs". These cars are irrational choices to begin with. why not add the power, the inexperienced driver and hey lets do it on the street too just for good measure. A recipe for disaster. I get my buzz on the track so I am less tempted to need a"fix" on the street. I have read posts on this forum for 3 years and have seen a high number of deadly accidents. How many guys have been killed or hurt on the track in that time frame? None that I am aware of. Scott.

Mr. Bandit 1

Let's see now... He tangles up with another "hot car" that he has raced before... Someone possibly bumps the other car while at high speed next to each other... A car flees the scene.... The Cobra driver has a history of street racing...
I gotta tell you, I'm sticking with the meteor theory...

Mr. casaleenie

Point of Clarification
 

A West Coast Cobra is not a high performance Cobra. It does qualify as a high performance vehicle, though.

Your pal,
Meat.

Wilf, I have an open diff and will more often than not spin both tires.

Brent - good point - I am sure that can happen, indeed has happened to myself. The point though, is that a locking or limited slip rear end will always do that, whatever the circumstances. Especially in a corner, whereas an open diff will always allow the unloaded "inner "wheel to spin, but usually not the outer one.

When my UK buddies and I have some fun on a track, it is always the cars with LSD rears that get away from them quicker even on straight "drag" starts. My car will usually get the power down and yet stay in a reasonably straight line. In fact I have been quite surprised by how straight it runs under full throttle in the lower gears, and I ascribe much of this to the open diff.
And as we all know, few of us have the skills necessary to bring a cobra back from a serious sideways moment. The car is just not forgiving.

Any other suspension gurus care to comment? I am here to learn.

LOL Meat
 

Tomsti... sure, I have seen many people hurt on bikes. A friend's bike, on a back highway at 2 AM, flipped right before my eyes at over 110 mph, (front end shimmy) I have had a few spills myself, back in my younger years (learning my limits sounds like a good explanation for this :eek: ) and have lost rear wheel traction at over 90 mph in hard corners. It's double dog scary, and one error then, you are toast. I no longer tempt fate in this regard, although I sometimes do some spirited back road work. Any machine can lose it, hopefully in a car with a good roll bar at least you might survive. Or maybe not. My buddy survived the 110 MPH flip with only minor injuries. It was wierd but true, he was catapulted from the bike immediately, and hit water after two body-barrel rolls, and was wearing a helmet.

I totally agree with Mr. Hudgins.

While my car does put out in excess of 300hp (502hp to be exact) NONE of us need such prodigous power for the street. I wanted my engine to put out power in the same range as the original Comp and S/C's which was in the 475hp to 485 hp range. I guess the extra few ponys came from the balancing and blue printing and the high performance parts used such as roller rockers.

Anyway, I don't "need" 502 hp. I can never use the full potential of that power because (1) I don't have the talent to do so (2) such driving has NO place on the street. I don't "race" my car on the track for several reasons the first being I have absolutely no interest in doing so right now.

Despite the prodigous power my car has I drive it like a normal car. I NEVER race on the street. There are times where there may be "spirited" driving but nothing that breaks the speed limits or motor vehicle laws. As such, I admit I never tap the full perfomance potential of my car nor will I.

All those guys who want 600hp 650hp or more , which far exceeds the power the original Cobras ever had for street use or racing use, IMHO are doing it for nothing more than hot rod bragging rights as to hp. Thats fine if thats what your into. But such power can never be used to its potential on the street nor should anyone ever try to. (example Glassnake)

But there are a very small percentage of guys that can ever hope to handle the full potential of that kind of power more less 400hp and up even on the track. You need the talent and the proper chasis set up and tuning for it.

Who here can claim to have the same driving ability as Ken Miles, Bob Bondurant, Phil Hill, Dave McDonald, Hal Keck, J. Nerspach or the other Shelby team drivers. etc.. Well??? Who??? Speak up. Those guys had to wrestle with Cobras putting out between 350hp and 500hp. Ken Miles even lost it with the first 427 prototype CSX 2166 earning him the nick name "teddy tree banger".

My point. Anyone one who really thinks they can drive these cars to the edge of the envelope and their full performance potential with more than 350hp are probably playing with themselves assuming their chasis is even up to the task. Maybe there is a VERY small percentage that can. The rest are just fooling themselves and probably have no idea.

While there are a "some" that like to make fun of the "f'n waxers" and congregate into their own group for support in knocking and name calling others who have no interest in "pretend racing" which "they" view as the only "worthwhile" way to enjoy a Cobra replica I do agree with their position that any "racing" ,if thats what you want to call it, be done on the track and NOT on the street.

While the Cobra or Cobra replica are not as safe as modern production cars from a crash worthiness standpoint they are just as safe for street use from the standpoint of accident avoidance if common sense is used regardless of horsepower.

That would be "Teddy tree BAGGER :D"

It was a RACE! NO doubt about it!
 

From the news pictures and various commentary sources (including posts by Marks sister) a picture of what likely happened begins to emerge:

The pictures tend to indicate the Cobra, after getting bumped, veered off to one side and hit the soft shoulder mound of earth which flipped the car over. "At speed" it would take only a very slight bump to cause one to veer suddenly off course. Once it flipped "at speed" it continued to roll over several times (based on accounts). Notice the side pipes are torn away from the rear exit mounting bolt position, yet still attached to the motor. Demonstrates the G forces at work due to the roll(s). Note also the roll bar appears in tact and the body damage, as to what can be seen is "light". This would indicate mid air "rolls" were possible, the car was "launched". You cannot control a car in the air or on it's roof (roll bar).

It was indicated they had raced before and Mark had won. "Words" were excahnge between the two drivers before the race. The Trans Am was now equiped with NOS. It would appear the race was very close as the speed increased and the cars were relativly close to each other, front to rear wise. Being a somewhat narrow road they would have been also close together side by side. Or, hitting the NOS could have caused a sudden and violent "burst" of speed.

At speed it is difficult to hold a "straight line" in the heat of battle. Especially on a "county" road with a probable "crown" (not flat) surface on the highway. A "glance" at your opponent or a momentary lapse in concentration (on either side) could easily result in the car "drifting" a little to one side or the other. This would in turn prompt a large steering input to one or both drivers trying to avoid collision.

POSSIBLY a racing school or actual "track" experience would have helped either or both drivers to avoid a large "steering wheel input" that I suspect happened.

The shape of the road, the obstacles along the side, the "unknown" skill of your adversary and the intense desire to "win" (on either side) make for a much more dangerous racing environment than a race track.

Specualtion you say? No more than any accident reconstruction person or detective might might come up with. It's a working "hypothysis".

Ernie

I hate to be the one to burst your guys bubble, but Mr. Glassnake didn't lose his life due to having "too much horsepower" or from "losing control". His car was hit by another vehicle. Either preach about "street racing" or don't preach at all. There was a gentleman killed in a SPF several months ago and the same "bull$hit" about too much horsepower in a Cobra was all over the place. It was reported that one of the rear wheels went off of the two lane street and he overcorrected pulling back onto the street. Someone has been killed like that in every vehicle or manufacturer made. A Cobra is like a Harley, it always sounds like there speeding (to Joe average..).

BANDIT 1

I have much sympathy for the family in this case. But the facts clearly support that "speed" was a big factor. As for H.P., you can "go fast enough" to get in serious trouble with 200 horse power. So you are correct that H.P. itself was not the main factor in the accident. But it was probably a factor "leading up to" the race. Again, this is based on Mystical Desire's post (his sister).

I want more H.P.,,,,,,,,,I hope it doesn't lead me into a situation where I "feel" compelled to race somebody.

Ernie

Excessive hp is a lure to driving too fast and over your head. Period.

I thought the article about Glassnake clearly indicated a "race". In fact the other car as I remember was a Trans Am.

Point. Anything beyond 300 hp is beyond most peoples skill and talent level as far as driving the car to its full potential.

I haven't seen anyone claim they have the same talent as Shelby's team drivers. They at times had a hard time taming these beasts. And the originals had less than 600hp.

The only antidote....Common sense. Period.

I don't know the the manufacturer of Glassnake's Cobra, but it would be safe to say that the suspension, brake system, and tire technology have nothing to do with the "original" Cobra being hard to drive even for a "race car driver".

Second, I disagree that too much horsepower "leads to racing". I gurantee you that 100's of people that have stalked my Cobra on the street didn't want "a piece of me" as they heard the sound of the Big Block going through the gears with me driving normal. It is the "normal" supercharged Mustangs, Camaro's, rice burner's, etc... that are "evenly matched cars" that race for a extended period of time.

Third, it says in a article the sister provided that the Trans Am owner may have started trouble at the Diner and that the Trans Am driver left the diner "driving erratically". That leads to several different possable things that could have happened. In my book, you judge by what you know, not by what you guess. It is piss poor for this guys name to be ran through the mud because people on this forum say it proves their point. It is fine to lecture about street racing or too much power in a Cobra, however with this accident there is no "proof" that was the case. It is highly possable the Cobra owner didn't want to race and was leaving to go home and the Trans Am followed him. I don't know, and I don't think anyone on this forum knows for sure. Hell, I have even heard this proves green is a bad colour for a Cobra.

Bandit 1,

My meteor theory is sounding better and better all the time....

Any thoughts on O.J., guilty or innocent?... Any thoughts on Robert Blake?


(sorry Wilf)

[quote]Originally posted by BANDIT 1
Second, I disagree that too much horsepower "leads to racing". I gurantee you that 100's of people that have stalked my Cobra on the street didn't want "a piece of me" as they heard the sound of the Big Block going through the gears with me driving normal.



What would your response be if one of the 100's of people stalking you did want a "piece of you"?

Evan -

Good points and of course irrefutable. It is like me jumping up and down and insisting that my ERA is faster than my Subaru. And then triumphantly concluding that I was right because no one was able to argue with me.

What you don't know of course is how good Shelby's drivers were drag racing on the street! :) Kidding.

By the way, I have watched you drive you car and you cannot tell me that you drive it like a normal car. You are so paranoid that something may touch the paint that you drive it like a grandmother. I have never seen anyone so careful with something. It is kind of a shame really as it is a nice car and, in my opinion anyway, it seems that a Cobra is a car that should be driven!

Do you remember at the Fling last year when we were asked to keep reasonably close to each other when we convoyed to London and you were so worried about getting stone chips from being close to another car the the whole line behind you got lost? True story!

If there was ever a Cobra that didn't need even a hundred HP yours is it!





:LOL:

And I bet his car looks great, too! Some buy them to look at them, one of the best looking cars ever built, some buy them to race them, one of the the fastest cars ever built, some, a combination of both. No problem. The guys who like to drive fast like to imply that the guys who drive slow are weenies, but I disagree. They just have different priorities. Hell, a lot of guys who have been posting machismo BS on this site for years don't even have drivable cars!%/