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I think ScottJ said it all.
It's about torque and the torque curve. If you can get your torque curve to get you about 85% of peak by 2600 rpm and stay within 15% of peak through 6000 rpm you will have a good steady hard pulling motor throughout the gears. I am speaking of a Big Block of course. The little blocks are a bit different but it's still about making torque and having a good usable torque range to drive in. Torque is a cars best friend. :3DSMILE: |
"little blocks"???
"Small" is comparitive. "little" is perjorative. :LOL: |
Evidently a term Lady Sue has used that has caused you mental anguish...:LOL:
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Wilf,
These may work better... Comparative Pejorative TURK :3DSMILE: :3DSMILE: damn foreigners.. |
"Little Blocks" LOL:LOL:
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Turk - just trying to fit in around here. I take my satisfaction from kowning that you looked them up, didn't you? :LOL:
Jamo - I think Sue prefers the word "tiny". I view that as a simple mispelling of "huge". |
I'm sorry Wilf.
I'll try to use them correctly next time. How's this? You have a little d!ck. You have small nuts. You're a big a$$hole. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: I believe that is a better use of the words.:D |
Ah, now you are begining to get the hang of it. :LOL:
Did your wife tell you all those details about me? |
Scottj:
I hadn't heard anyone claiming that a built FE couldn't run with a mediocore small block as mentioned. I have a well built 427 SO with all the best parts which made an impressive (for FE's I was told) 543 hp on an engine dyno. It feels every bit like it and given the Genisis and shelby block options nowadays wouldn't hesitate to replicate a similiar motor if needed. At a recent drag event in which EVERYONE had trouble hooking up my old BOAT anchor FE was only .3 tenths off an Ernie Elliott (673 hp!) de-tuned Nascar Small block car and .55 tenths off a stroked & bored 460 to 521 inch fuel injected monster motor - again 675 hp! Don't let the FE talk get you moving in another direction because I guarantee you a well built motor is more than you or I need and the extra power like Keith craft's ultimately is not identifiable in real world driving and maybe even on the dragstrip. Best wishes! |
Yeah Wilf she did. Said you should have used a cat for a bushing. :LOL: :LOL:
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Dynos are for tuning engines, and bench racing. Wayyyyy too many 700+ hp engines seem to unable to break the 11's......
Ernie Elliotts quote still rings true..."HP sells engines, torque wins races" Anytime somebody wants to play numbers, play them at the track where reality is as accurate as a stopwatch. |
Cracker- I was merely surmising, (based on Mr. Sunshined’s statements about his “powerhouse” FE that “killed” most, and had “ALL the tricks”) that the most power an FE could possibly make (581HP) isn’t even equal to a mediocre small block.
Everyone- Because I can’t verify the dyno sheets on Craft’s 700+HP FEs, nor do I have knowledge as to who’s CNC programs he is using (maybe his own but I doubt it) to get 320-380cfm of flow on his heads, I’m not going to come on here and call him a liar. But I know that when he says that one of his good small blocks makes over 800 hp he is NOT lying. I’ve seen these dyno sheets AND I’ve raced against these engines many times. So what. Does any of this mean that you could even use that much power in a Cobra any way? I doubt it, not on a road course at least. In support of that statement is the fact that the 2 fastest big block Cobras at Run and Gun were running big small blocks and both drivers (one being Tony Martin) said they needed LESS torque and more rpm. Craft isn’t building these Cobra engines for road racers any way, he’s building them for bench racing and pissing contests I would guess. And maybe he does grossly exaggerate the dyno numbers for the Cobra market, but I doubt it. Scott |
ScottJ
The FE has a lot of drawbacks that have been beaten to death on CC in the past so no use to re-hash. You are right about the small block. My Cup motor makes 700 reliable hp at 12 : 1
If you look at the FE head configuration it is clear to see why the HP is limited. They are closer to small block heads without a clear sight of the valve. If the eye can't see it clearly then the air/fuel has to dance around there as well robbing power. Bottom line....The FE is the most desirable for most that build a 427 Cobra kit. This thread is to just alert those that Dyno numbers can be inflated and those unsuspecting might think they paid for more than they actually got. If you are running street compression and all the tricks and get a real 475-500, consider yourself lucky. The original comp cars at 12:1 made around 500. My friend who had 3002 confirmed it. |
CSX 4027
I'm aware of the short comings of the original FE head. What I have gathered about the fully CNC'ed Edelbrocks with raised intake and exhaust ports is that they'll flow 350-360 on the intake and 250 on the exhaust. (I think Craft claims 380-I). If 350/250 cfm is true they should support 700+ HP.
Jeez, I can't believe I'm defending FEs. Curious-what heads are on your Cup motor. |
I USED A RECOMMENED ENGINE BUILDER IN SACRAMENTO. NATHAN GEROLAMY. HE BUILT MINE THAT CAME OUT 650/640FT. THE DYNO WORK WAS ALSO DONE IN SACRAMENTO BY REX HUTCHINSON. IN ADDITION TO HIS RESUME OF NOR-CAL CLIENTS, NATHAN HAS DONE SEVERAL ENGINES FOR RICH MASON INCLUDING THE 427 IN THE FLIP TOP. HIS PHONE # IF INTERESTED IS 916-485-8288
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Hello all,
It's funny you guys are having the same problems with dynos and HP figures as us in the WRX world. We must have all wheel drive dynos and there is basically 4 different brands in the US. (Dyno Dynamics, Dynapack, Mustang, Dynojet). I've put these dynos in order of the results you would get (lowest to highest). Dyno Dynamics is notorious for giving much lower results than any of the others. There can be a 50whp difference between Dynamics and Dynojet. So when people say they want 300whp, I say "from which dyno?" It gets so complicated that one of the tuners actually build a excel calculator to showcase the difference. See it here. I bought the Dynorad so I can test my hp whenever I want to. It only costs $200 which pays for itself in no time at all. http://www.dynorad.com/images/pmarticle.jpg |
ScottJ
All Cup motors either use Yates or Yates Style heads.
As for the 650 HP motor, I would love for you to post a build sheet and dyno sheet for all to see. |
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