Evan,

I think the consensus here is that Carroll Shelby came first and then GOD....;)

Wilf,

I stand chastised.... of course it's "Damn" Margaret Rutherford.
and yes, "Marple" stands..:) ;)
That damn Goodle screwed me up again...

You English are still pissed off about the "King Ralph" thing, aren't you?:(

Folks,

I have waded through this great whacking thread and have but one point to make.

Why is it that no one here understands that CS is just another guy trying to make a buck?

Please note: he has some great accomplishments and a history that he should be vetted for and is. He has had a long, somewhat successful business career that was filled with strife and troubles, but he is still at it. And what he is at is making money.

Does anyone here really think that he gives a rat’s ass about the history of the Cobra other than how it can increase his income?

If any of you were in his place, would you do anything different when it came to income or involvement.

Look, the man is doing what it takes to insure the continuation of his line.

That is a very basic premise of evolution.

And CS understands this.

The folks at ENRON, WORLD COM, etc... just wanted to make a buck also...

I don't think anyone on this forum cares the guy likes to make money, it's how he chooses to do it.

Cobras before CS
 

I have in front of me a copy of page 63 of the September-October 1959 issue of "Sports Car Graphic" magazine (or was it still Sports Car Quarterly then) which shows two photos of the Buchanan Cobra, a two seat sports car made in Australia by Buchanan Motors. It was a sylish little car with lines similar to some Fiat and Ferrari models. It used Triumph engine and gearbox and a fiberglass body on a "box section frame". Wt 1440 lbs. Height 48 inches. Included wind-up windows, adjustable bucket seats and "roomy luggage accomodations". Cost was "about $2200". "Scheduled to go into serious production in the middle of January"(1960). "Negotiations are taking place to retail it through the dealer network of a major car company."

First is first.

Albright42

Wilf,
"a 2 liter class" is NOT a car. It has neither enough liters or class.
My gawd, we have lawn mowers here bigger than that!

TURK

Re: Cobras before CS
 

http://v8vantage.com/images/jb%20first%20race.jpg

"More than one hundred bodies had been sold by 1958 when the Buchanan moulds were sold to Jennens & Simmonds of Parramatta Road, Croydon. who went on to produce about fifty further units. The bodies built by Buchanan are distinguished from those produced by J. & S. in having a numbered body plate attached."


http://v8vantage.com/images/ad%201960%20april.jpg

http://v8vantage.com/images/essy%20big.jpg

Only 2 litres?
 

Why back when Ole Shel was putting together his early "real Cobras" Formula One was limited to 1.5 litres, unblown. Two litre engines were "Big Blocks" then.

Albright42

Why are the wipers so far down the bonnett?

They are wipers aren't they?

TURK

Hey JM, I remember many a night--actually every Wednesday night, after the Angel Inn closed and then stopping at White Castle. We used to call them sliders because of the grease factor.

Bill,

Me and my buds used to 'own' the Angel in in the Mid 80s. We used to have all night parties in my buddy's condo across the street on Rt. 1 with the dancers and we would hand out water bottles to everyone as they entered to 'hose down' the dancers. Do you remember 'Raquel' or 'Leigh'????

Evan asked..
"Did the Cobra exist before Carroll Shelby visited AC?".

Someone replies:
"I guess if a Honda designer recommends a Mercedes engine to go into the next S2000, that it should be named after him and it's the Ted Johnson S2000 instead of a Honda S2000."

YES. If Ted creates another car marrying the two components, however identical the donors are, he just done did came up with CSXTED. Too bad the other two entities didn't think of it first. See Russ's explanation how this works.

40 years later no one is replicating, copying The Honda, and engine is no longer necessarily the original Mercedes. They are copying and replicating CSXTED!

You deal with it!

TURK

John I think I am a few years older than you. For me it was the late seventies and early eighties. I do not remember sh!t from that time period.

I did have two friemds who lived in Edison, near the Angel at that time. Steve Petersak and John Bara. Petersak used to stand at the front door and make fun of every person who entered the place. You couldn't miss him--he had like 25" arms.

Sorry Wilf, please resume your assault.

1. There is an animatronic character on the Sci-Fi Channel series "Farscape" that looks like he was modelled after the mustachio-ed AC Ace.
2. There were probably many cars in the fifties, and earlier, that used small European two-seater cars with American engines for power, but I believe that CS is the "father" of the vehicle "named" COBRA.

Well Turk:

If it goes like you said, why is the new Cobra still called a Shelby Cobra?

Shouldn't it be named after the "real" designers?

After all, the new designers have totally re-designed the Cobra (like Shelby did with the AC) with a all new engine and chassis (as Shelby did with the 427 Cobra)and Shelby had very little input (as did supposably AC and FORD did with the 427 Cobra).

Richard ,

Exactly . I couldnt agree more.....................

..............of course you are wasting your breath...........:D

KK

That is why I seldom post.

There are only so many breathes left in this body.

And wasting them is certainly a sin.

Wilf makes an excellent point about the history of the AC/ACE from a British stand point. I think I'm beginning to understand it.

The AC has a nice history going for it. C.S. being so involved in the European market at the time certainly would have noticed it's accomplishments. As FATE would have it, when AC lost the engine supplier, Shelby's timing was perfect! Amazing that he was able to bring together all the elements that culminated in the end product, the Cobra.

To say that AC was going under could be to easily interpreted as saying, "AC was a looser." In fact, they were a winner fallen on hard times. It was a beautiful partnership, AC, Shelby and Ford!

As to Cobras after 1967? I can't agree with that. ONLY Shelby in my mind can make a "Cobra". Ford may own the name, but without Shelbys "blessing" it aint a Cobra! AC could make them, but they weren't "Cobras". The Kirkhams make an oustanding "REPLICA", but it takes Shelby to make it a "Cobra". Hey, thats just the way I see it (IMHFOAIYDLI, bite me)! :D

Ernie

Bandit1,
Not all designers, certainly not those on the payroll of GM, Ford and other big manufacturers have that latitude. Not that they wouldn't want to.

I imagine when you are on the payroll for Ford or GM and they have you working on their dime, they expect you to complete certain projects with no obligation to name the car after you. Sad but true.
Basically they own the intellectual property rights as if they created it. I suppose same is true of Microsoft. I don't know who is responsible for the net browser I use, but I can assure you it in not someone named Mr. Explorer.

I am sure some of the recent successes in the auto world has many no-name engineers, designers we will never hear about.

If you have a name like Dior, Shelby, Versace, Eddie Bauer, they let you name a kitchen sink even if all you did was to have once turned the faucet on.


Name recognition.! The name Shelby has some clout believe it or not. I don't think he is a diety, but many will pay a premium for his name, and I think it was clever for Ford to have consulted with him and maybe got nothing from him in the form of any design or engineering advice, but they sure wanted his blessing and name. They must feel the car will fare better as a Shelby Cobra than it would as Ford Cobra.

I am not suggesting the car will run better or will be a better car becaue of the name. It just will be perceived as something special.

Lucky for old man, he has that name to be able to do that.

If they would have asked me, I would have suggested my name.

TURK

Thankfully, you said no to Yugo.