I see both sides of this and can't say that I lean towards one side over the other.
CS and the Cobra are both legends. I've been a hude fan of his since I can remember, and have paid to have him sign items in the past. Worth every cent, if you ask me. None of us would be here (on CC) today if it weren't for him.
On the other hand, most of us here wouldn't be able to enjoy driving a "Cobra" if it weren't for the replica industry. I own a Superformance (who he sued) and I'm sure he wouldn't be as willing to sign my dash today as he would have been a few years back. Although, I have to wonder how much of this was CS's idea (the law suits) and how much of it was his attorney's / co-workers doings. I think they all saw $$$ signs and wanted a piece of the action that the replica industry was getting. Building the SA 40K rollers is how he should have competed in the first place..........not trying to sue the replica industry out of the Cobra business.
Of course, the SA rollers are another story...............
Sure would like to see one. I hear they are supposed to be nice cars...... but if you give someone a delivery date (especially after asking for a good chunk of change up front before ever showing them a car!), you had better keep your promise.
Good luck to those of you with one on order. Hopefully it will be worth the wait!

G.R., I, too have a large collection of CS autographed items from popcorn to paintings that I paid for. I will still continue to purchase CS items for my own personal collection. Don't get me wrong here, I am a CS follower from many years back. He is a legend and nobody is going to change that.
I have seen one of the new Las Vegas built $42,500 rollers recently. It was at the Knott's show a week ago. Not a bad looking car at all.
CSX400?, be nice!

I purchased 8004, #16 of the anniv cars. So far, no buyers remorse and I was able to get it registered through SB100 with quite a bit of effort but no major problems. Built in LV and finished by XK's in San Luis Obispo. I think because it was a 289 car it went a little faster.

Guys...

Shelby is the original. Everybody and his grandmother makes a Cobra as well, and they are all different. Shelby's is even different then it was in the beginning, but then again technology has gotten better. Yes, they use different components today, but everybody has to make money if they are going to be in this game, even shelby. You guys don't want to pay the price for quality. The Kirkham turn out a good product, and even there components are not the greatest, but they are good. I am not knocking anyone in particular, but please do not hold up anyone out there as a shining example of automotive quality in the cobra world... Shelby has one thing that others do not...History! Just my opinion guys...

Guy,

To which parts were you referring when you said, "there [sic] components are not the greatest...?"

David:) :) :)

The interesting thing about collectibles (art, cobras, pez dispensers) is that value is determined by the market and the basics of supply and demand. I am always amazed that a $5 baseball can instantly transform in to a mega dollar collectible upon being smacked in to the record books. I've never heard one of the buyers complain about the quality of the ball. My assumption was that a csx would cost more than materials + labor+ profit and time and the market will determine whether it was a good value. In the meantime, nice to look at; fun to drive. And I give CS credit for still being a gamer at 80+

David,

Why not start with your reproduction rearends? I have more if you like:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :eek:

allan
i'm curious you have a "sai" car with a "csx" rear end (with csx numbers). what kind of troubles could you posibly be having?

None! Get the picture.

Allan,

You may be surprised to find out the differentials we use are essentially identical to the ones Shelby uses. (We do sell a few cars with the Jaguar differential, which is very, very close, we have sold less than 10 Jag differentials in 10 years. The vast majority of the differentials we sell are virutally identical to the ones Shelby sells.)

It is my understanding Mike McCluskey made our tooling and then took a splash off of it for Carroll years ago. (At least that is what Mike told me when he asked if he could do it; I, of course, said yes.)

Shelby gets their differetials from the same supplier we use for our parts. In fact, we sell lots of parts for the differential Shelby uses to the supplier, who in turn, sells them to Shelby. We have been selling the supplier parts to the differential for years and currently they even have more parts on order with us.

I believe Kirkham and Shelby use the same:
Differential case (splashed from the same tooling)
differential gears (purchased from the same supplier)
differential power lock (purchased from the same supplier)
differential axles (purchased from the same supplier)
differential rear cover plate (purchased from the same supplier)
differential pinion flange (manufacturered by Kirkham)
differential bearings (purchased from the same supplier)
differential set up kit (purchased from the same supplier)

I think you will find the differentials are essentially the same.

As for other parts, I would love to hear if there are ANY problems with ANY other of our parts. I do not claim to be perfect--and neither do our suppliers--but we do try to fix any problems we do find along the way, (hence my question to Guy what parts he thought we not the best). I have to find out what parts he doesn't like so I can investigate them further.

Allan, I welcome your comments as I know you have vast experience in complicated manufacturing and in dealing with suppliers. Any suggestions you may have to improve our company would be most welcome.

Thank you in advance,

David:) :) :)

As an owner/builder/driver of one of the more "mature" Kirkham cars, (at least on this site), I can vouch for the quality of all of the components, (including that beautiful aluminum "pumpkin"), and from what I have seen, I think the newer cars are getting even better..

Approaching 2000 miles now, tight, and tough as nails. No failures, and if there were any, Kirkham stands behind their product like no one else I have seen in the industry.

Bud:JEKYLHYDE :JEKYLHYDE :JEKYLHYDE

David,

Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought you were astonished that you have made some bad parts. For example, shipping out premium rear ends to your customers with latent defects and then hiding it is not a sign of quality. One fellow in particular mentioned that you supplied him a complete rear end (original style) for his KMP car. He was disappointed to find stripped bolt holes filled with Loctite to hide the defect. Finding and correcting problems like this before they ship out is a sign of a quality company, anything else in my opinion is not.

Allan

Let me throw my two cents in on Kirkham cars. First of all, I'm an owner of a CSX 7000 series car, 289 FIA. The FIA has always been my favorite roadster because it was the roadster that competed internationally in 1964 for the FIA championship. That said, I've always been interested in getting an FIA and looked at various FIA models from the time Unique brought their's out in early 1990's.
When Shelby announced he was going to bring out two versions of the FIA, one in glass and one in aluminum PRODUCED BY KIRKHAM (my emphasis), I was extremely interested in buying a Kirkham produced car. I'd heard all the good things about how supposedly exact and authentic Kirkham cars were. Imagine my astonishment when I went to Las Vegas to look at a Kirkham FIA and found:
1. The FIA "suitcase bumps" (the very item which makes an
FIA an FIA ) MISSING FROM THE TRUNK LID!!!
2. The hood scoop on the Kirkham FIA was incorrectly
shaped.
3. The oil cooler opening below the D shaped grill opening
on the front of the car was missing.
Needless to say, there was no way I was going to pay an extra $20,000.00 for an aluminum car which was incorrect and then have to pay someone like Bruce Kimmins thousands more to fix these three defects.
So David, my message to you is: what's the explanation?
In fact, some months ago I sent you an email about this very issue which you never replied to. Since seem to be so concerned about the "quality" and "authenticity" of Kirkham products, please tell me and all others reading this thread why Kirkham produced a car with these major errors.
Tony Sousa
CSX 7035
(an AUTHENTIC FIA)

"Why not start with your reproduction rearends? I have more if you like"
"None! Get the picture"

Allan A
you sound like a very confused individual! you bring up problems that turn out NOT to be problems?

tonysshelbys
first not all "fia" / cut back door cobras had the trunk suitcase bumps, look at friedmans' books. also the front oil cooler scoop was a varied modification done as the cars were developed, i had mine done at "sai" at no charge (see my build sheet in my gallery). the customer versions also did not have the oil cooler scoops (see friedmans' books). i had my cooler scoop redone by mccluskey to more closely resemble the '64 versions. if you look at the kirkham's cars they resemble the customer version of the cars to near perfection. tell me your "sai" glass cars front fender flares, hood scoop, oil cooler scoop, frame, dash lay out etc... even come close to the aluminum original or kirkham car versions.:JEKYLHYDE

Tony,

I think the bumps on the trunk did not make the car an FIA, as memory serves this was a last ditch effort to qualify the cars for a particular set of races with the Shelby Team Mgr slamming the trunk onto the "FIA SUITCASE" that good old FERRARI had pushed them into doing since it fit in a Ferrari GTO with no problem, thus the creation of those "bumps".
The nose opening below the grille occurred right before Targa Florio and were rather crude with each a different dimension shape and were needed to fight the high heat in the cooler after bearing failure showed up with the light/screen hoops added to the fronts for rocks/debris. Neither of the two items above were never a part of the FIA package sold to the consumer as Competition cars that were built to FIA specifications as a crossover into the USRRC rules to be run stateside under the FIA sanction.
I have seen only two FIA Kirkhams to date , didn't measure the scoop, but looked right size and dimensions for the 64 Competition specd FIA cars. If you will note however, the same FIA rules under the USRRC banner stateside used another scoop that later was modified for the 427 Competition cars.
The things I guess I always note along with what you noted above that ID a 289/FIA;
1. The 289 style header/under body edge exhaust pipe, no side pipe.
2. The aluminum scoops on the front for the brake ducts.
3. The correct flares.
4. The correct roll bar painted or chrome.
5. The correct wheels and square ear knockoffs.
6. The correct dash and SW gauges.
7. The correct seats and belts.
8. The correct qwik jacks and direction.
9. The correct fuel tank location and cap.
10. Never mind under the hood, most get carried away.
11. Never mind the correct suspension, the comp 289 leaf spring set-up is more rare than the cars.
12. The white lens Lucas paring lights.

I could add another 31 items to this list not counting minor details. I have always found, if you replicated a particular car and date raced, then you have it nailed, otherwise, this is the car the Carroll was always commenting on that they did not have set of exact shop rules, parts, and no two matched, I won't finish his comment).

grumpy

ps: I want to add I'm not being critical in any way or trying to defend any car or any one, that's the novelty of these cars, and the more hysterical data we come across the more we find incorrect as to thise details.

grumpy
i agree with you on your post and the different items that make the 289 comp car what it is. i will also have to say that i have available to me one of the original team cars to make reference to and can provide detail photos to anyone if needed.

I am amazed at the squabbling here. Like a bunch of school girls.

Did you guys ever closely examine an original? Whats produced today by Shelby directly or by Kirkham as a source supplier for Shelby is heads and tails above original stuff.

Stop b i t c h 'n and enjoy your cars.

I agree 100% with Deacon and Serendip.

Original Shelby's will always be worth more IMHO than Continuation Shelby's. Continuation Shelby's will always be worth more than replica Cobras. Period. The Kirkham will benefit as to resale based on its connection with and by virtue of the fact it is Shelby's main source for alloy cars. It has that added "status" of its Shelby connection.

:cool:

Allan,

I have never said we were perfect--only trying to get that way. Ford, Honda, NASA, (Columbia...), Kirkham have all had their mistakes. Good companies do their best to find them, (thank you for your information), and then to correct them. There have been many pages here on this forum where Kirkham has fixed mistakes or tried to help customers. I am not astonished at that and I do not know where you could have read that. If I indeed did say that, I certainly would apologize as it is not the case nor did I inted to come across that way.

You must be careful in your characterization of Kirkham as "hiding" defects. Said differential was NOT built by Kirkham, but by a former sub-contractor. The holes were indeed stripped and "repaired" with Loctite, but the sub-contractor did not inform us of the problem. Kirkham, in no way, was aware of the problem and therefore it is an unfair characterization of Kirkham to state Kirkham was "hiding" anything. Furthermore, we were not happy with any other work on the same differential and therefore threw it in the scrap heap. We are currently waiting on parts to give the customer a completely new differential and will ship him one as soon as the parts arrive.

As we did not approve of the sub-contractor's mechanical practices we were forced to read a lot of books and eventually even called Precision Gear to learn how to set the differentials up correctly. We even set a differential up and shipped it to Precision Gear and they were kind enough to instruct us in the proper set up of a differential. Currently, we set up our differentials ourselves and Precision Gear sets up the differentials for Shelby. As I said, Precision Gear purchases parts from us to set up Shelby's differential.

Incidentally, the differential to which you refer to was sold to the customer approximately 5 years ago. Nevertheless, the customer noted a problem, and we IMMEDIATELY took steps to correct it eventhough more than 5 years had past.

David:) :) :)

Now that is what I call standing behind your product---5 years---and the Kirkhams are replacing the part. Wow!!! Doesn't happen very often that I've seen.

If I ever go alloy I think it will be Kirkham, David