I will check into the engine size that you mentioned. I do ask what motor they have in the vehicle and surprisingly enough I don't find too many 289s, gee isn't that where they started. Going from memory we find a lot 351s, 427s, and a few 302s. I don't want to give anyone a heart attack this morning but we even have 2 350s that I can remember.

:)

CobraBill,

Not trying to start an argument, but wouldn't your analysis about not being allowed to own a Cobra until you worked your way up to it apply to any high performance car? You want a Corvette you have to start with a Chevette, No longer made thank goodness, then a mild V-8 and so on.
I have witnessed to many crashes and some of them involved Cobras and for the most part, it was showing off and inexperience with any type of high performance car that caused the crash. I am one of the oldest people still allowed to drive, I have been to high performance driving schools, and have more years of driving than most of you are old, but I still do not know all there is to it. Same at the track. More problems from new people who have followed the pace car around a few laps and then think they are qualified. Kind of like the computer answer to the problem. PSBK. The main problem I think is just people over driving their abilities and not really knowing the handling characterstics of their cars, regardless of what kind of car it is. And all of us pay for it in terms of higher insurance rates.

Ron :)

Ron,sort of.I wouldn't take it as far back a a Chevette,though.But a Cobra is a high HP SHORT wheel base car.Most don't appreciate the ramifications of a short wheel base car.Part of the issue i what is available today for go fast cars out of the dealer.Mustang,Viper & Vette are all that come to mind.


Robbin-a poser for you......................As we have seen mentioned in this topic,that HP factors into the insurance rate.So please tell me why i am paying more for my HD Dynaglide than someone with a Suzuki 750 Katana that has more(twice) power and will blow my pipes off.

The biggest problem you are going to find is driving to and from work. We use to allow people to "occasionally" drive them to work and it seemd that meant 2 out of 5 days to some. It is hard to define occasional in a legal document so it was easier to say no driving to and from work. As far as errands I kind of look at it as if you took your car to run an errand and you had other vehicles at home you could have taken okay, but if it was the only car there because all others were gone then it is a substitue and that could be a problem. I know same errand either way but go back to the occasional to and work problem.

Robbin

:)

Bill,

I agree with you and I never mentioned the short wheel base as many of the Cobra Replicas have 94" and I think some 96" inch wheel bases which still aren't great. Mine will turn around in a heartbeat if I am not careful and I have the 94" base which is more forgiving than the 90". I can't say that I drive my age as I don't think anything has been built that will go that fast. :LOL:

Ron :)

HP has came up as probably too much for most inexperienced drivers and I would agree with that.

Theft of HDs is real problem. I have seen some carriers that have one rate program for HD and one for all others. Not many people stealing the metric bikes. Not to mention you are probably talking about $20,000+ for the HD and about $10,000 for the Suzuki. As far as the insurance rates for the two not only what I mentioned but there it really depends on the Companies as well. Let's face it some Companies are high on rates some are too low. (of course nobody will agree with me on that)

Not trying to pass the buck here but do you think that maybe the manufactures of the vehicles should entertain the idea of hosting their own school, rather than an Insurance Company. These are the ones that profit the most out of the selling of a vehicle. I would think it could be a great marketing idea if XYZ Cobra Company held a Rally each year. They invited all of the vehicles built by them to this Rally, had a swap meet, after market vendors, a training class, racing and seminars, and really made it a marketing project. I have taught an insurance class at events such as this. I have put on Car Shows, cruise-ins, and festivals myself sponsored them myself and it has been great for my business.

Mid America in Effingham, IL has an event for Corvette owners and one for VW & Porshe owners each year, and do you think they keep doing it because they are losing money. Hey Cobra Companies, think about it.

I really enjoyed reading your note. You know when I talk with people and they call with a value on their car they always want to value it at the total receipts they have in it. Aren't you glad you don't have to buy a 2007 chevy for what it costs if you went to NAPA to buy each individual part. I usually think you should insure it for parts and absorb labor costs. In a lot of cases you could purchase one built for less than you pay just for the parts, and usually with very low miles.

As far as the early morning claim what are you going to do if you are the adjuster. They wrecked their car on the way home from a pleasure drive and we cover that sort of thing. The only thing we can do is look at the renewal a little closer. If someone has an accident and they are legally intoxicated we pay for the loss. Personally I think that if you are doing something illegal such as that and wreck your car we should not pay for your vehicle. Ask my son if I practice this, anyone want to buy a wrecked '66 Mustang!

I like higher deductible idea and am going to push the companies into filing that. Currently, in most States, we only go as high as $250. Of course when we increase deductibles we also lower premiums but hopefully they offset themselves in the long run.

Driving schools have been mentioned a lot and I am going to check into those a little more and probably post some on my website. If anyone is involved in a school send me a web link and I will get it on my site.

Thanks for the posting and oh by the way there is an insurance coverage for that divorce situation it is long term care.

Maybe we all need to put some of these numbers into perspective.

First, a few simple questions.

1) How many Cobras do you insure? Is it 50, 100, 200?
2) You stated in your original post that you were looking at a 3 month average. What was the yearly pay-out over say the last 5 years?

I don't mean these questions as a "put me on the spot" type of thing, but most insurance companies are notorious for twisting percentages in their favor to increase rates, drop coverage on a vehicle they don't make ENOUGH money on, or avoid a hefty pay-out in the future.

Thank you for all the information throughout this thread. If nothing else, it opened my eyes a bit.

Many good points and its refreshing to see Robbin (an industry memeber) gathering information and giving us some warning. But...

Loop Holes...Loop Holes...Loop Holes Everyone knows what insurance companies do with loop holes. Drive to the store in your Cobra on the third Friday of the month with another car as an option...no coverage..sorry Charlie, no can do.

Insurance companies do two things very well. First, they write policies and collect premiums. Second, they avoid, delay, and deny claims. Way too many lawyers involved here and way too much fine print with too many loopholes. If you don't think insurance companies utilize loopholes, poll any resident on the Gulf Coast that went through Katrina and filed a claim with State Harm.

All Cobra drivers and enthusiasts are not created equal. I have been to Skip Barber Racing School twice. Once in 1982 where a little known Michael Andretti attended with Papa Mario, and second last year for a refresher since I was buying a big block Cobra. I have zero at fault accidents in 42 years of driving. One claim where my insurer paid out (stolen Z-28 in 1970). Tickets? There have been a few but my insurance company turned on the electric milker and was rewarded handsomely with these little "revenue enhancers".

I have been driving sports and high performance cars all my life... Austin Healy (first car), Tiger, AC Bristol, Vettes, an E-type or two, Maserati, the required Porsche, Lotus blah..blah..blah. At 58 and with slightly slower reaction times however, I know that a big block Cobra is literally in a league all its own and deserves some additional respect. Therefore...the second Barber outting last year.

Give enthusiasts like me a REAL insurance policy without loopholes and ridiculous limitations.

Realistic Limitations I drive the car on public roads I'm covered...period. Give me a 5,000, 10,000 or 15,000 per year mileage option. No coverage for track or comp. damage. As Barber would say "That's Racing!"

Realistic Deductible Give me a $1,000, $5,000 or $10,000 option for (not at fault) comp. and collision If its my fault, however, I pay too. Maximum coverage for an at fault accident $50,000 or 50% of the damage. That will keep everyone diligent and on the same team. Anyone that has the time to file a $2.00 claim should not be driving a Cobra. These are Yugo infiltrators that run up everyone elses rate.:CRY:

Required H.P. Vehicle Control School Anyone that owns any high performance vehicle owes it to himself and others to know how to control it under all circumstances. Keep in mind, these cars are excellent for avoiding accidents too, if you know (have been taught) how to throw them around a little.

Get the manufacturers and clubs involved big time. Make the insurance provider a "participation" company which pays dividends to their insureds for profits rather than to shareholders. Cap the payout. If you are involved in a serious accident while drunk or drag racing...you have bigger problems than increasing premiums and the insurer should not be paying through the nose for your mistakes. These claims are no "accident". AND...no loopholes are necessary. Maybe not the policy for everyone, but for enthusiasts like me... where do I sign and send my check? :)

This has been a very interesting/informative thread....This is going to be a somewhat long post, so beware, and IT IS NOT meant to start any kind of argument, I will try to present what I know....

I do not own a Cobra and probably never will, so I have NO dog in this fight, but I feel for the Cobra owners and Midwest Classic brings up some valid points.... If some things do not change,Cobra owners will face very high premiums when they can find them and some will not be able to insure their cars, not good for the hobby.....

I do own a 65 Mustang Fastback (GT-350 clone)(insured as a classic car) that is an occassional driver and a 65 Mustang coupe which is not street legal and a dedicated road race car(no insurance of any kind)...I have been to driving schools in the past and will go to more in the future, I have nothing but good to say for driving schools,I always learn something at them, not matter how good I think I am, also learned real quick how little I DO KNOW about high performance driving/racing.....

I work in the automobile insurance industry in claims, been doing this for 14 years now, I work an average of 1000 auto claims a year, so I guess I can safely say I've seen it all.................First off, any insurance company is just that, a company, it has to make a profit to stay in business.... The company I work for is a national company that also sells insurance other than strictly autos, they have to to stay in business....the parish (county) I live in is one of 64 in the state of Louisiana, the company I work for LOSES on average approx. ONE MILLION dollars a year on auto insurance in my parish alone, not all parish's are like this, but many are..!!!!!!!!! the homeowners side of things makes enough money to offset this loss and show an overall profit and that's why they still do business in the state....this is not classic car insurance, but you get the idea....

One post said something to the effect that he never saw an insurance company go out of business, well, in the last 7 years, three have gone out of business in this state and two more have quit doing any business in the state,and two more are cutting back their business in the state and have plans to phase out all auto policies within the next two years, it does happen!!!!!!!!!

another post said something to the effect that 10% of the drivers cause 90% of the claims, I couldn't agree more, in classic car insurance that 10% are COBRA DRIVERS....it is a fact of life, like it or not.... that's why insurance companies are not renewing policies and getting away from insuring Cobras altogether, simple economics.........many varaibles are taken into account when determining the cost to insure a specific car, # of cylinders/hp,body style (sedan,coupe, convertible, station wagon, sports car,etc.),average age of the owners,average number of miles driven a year by the owners, cost of repairs, cost of the vehicle.... Say an 07 Mustang cost the same as say an 07 Corwn Vic and the costs of repairs is about the same, which would be less expensive to insure????? I don't have the figures in front of me, but I think the average age of the owners of the Crown Vic is around 50 years old or a little more, the average age of the Mustang owner is probably no more than 25....which is more likely to have an accident???? You get the idea by this comparison......same goes with Cobras as compared to lets say Street Rods or classic cars built before 1940.....

I DO, I've been insured with the same company since the early 90's with my Fastback, fortunetly, I've never had an accident and never had to make a claim on the car and after 3 years, I started getting a 10% discount on my yearly premium and have been getting this discount ever since.................

I'll be the first to state I have done my share of stoplight to stoplight street racing in the past, but after I got into "orangized" racing, the desire to street race disappeared.....I do think the driving schools has helped me to be a better driver on the street and the racing aspect has left me with NO desire to street race....

Go to a local "crusie nite" and watch the participants leave, I have, it's to see who can show just how fast their car is, you-tube is full of these mishaps, three of which I've seen lately were by Cobra drivers in their cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they were being just plain dumb and wrecked their cars!!!!!!!!!!the "ricers" are not far behind..........

I don't have all the answers, but as a whole, the Cobra owners are heading downhill with the insurance industry right now....Driving schools, safe driving records can help, but I really don't see things getting better as the number of Cobras on the road increases every year.....people owning/driving Cobras need to take more responsability for their actions and try to be safer drivers if they expect to keep driving their cars...... How many post's have we seen in the last few years on this forum of Cobra crashes??? how many deaths???? How many were "street racing"???? the numbers may not seem high to some, but compare those numbers to any other group of classic cars and you'll be suprised at how safe some of the other groups are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just like every other Joe here, I have four cars insured and pay enough premium and I for one would like to see my premiums drop, but I'm being realistic about the whole thing, it's not going to happen any time soon.......

Red; You have made some very valid points and I agree with all of them, especially the drunk drivers, but an insurance company would not sell but a handful of policies like the one your looking for(my guess is they would be dirt cheap), and I would love to see a policy like that offered, NO ONE wants to be held accountable for their actions, just let the insurance company pay for their supid mistakes that's what I pay my premium for!!!!!!!! and in the end you and I and the Cobra community suffer by not being able to get reasonble insurance rates and possibly in the near future not being able to find ANY insruance at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have many times told the undewriting department they should have a "stupidity clause";) ;) in every policy, then when some soccer mom gives her 14 year old daughter(with NO drivers license and NO driving experience other than driving in the pasture once or twice) the keys to her $30,000.00 SUV to go joy riding on sunday afternoon and she totals it, flipping it 4 times and a large tree stopped it from flipping more while doing an estimated 80 mph in a 35 mph speed zone,we could tell her "it's your fault",not ours, so now you pay the damages out of your pocket......total bill including meds was in excees of 50 grand!!!!!!!!!

David

I could take this two ways. If you are saying that you don't learn to drive in a race car, yes I see your point, and agree. If you are saying that you should say who is allowed to buy what, I think your a comunist and don't know it.


More like a teenager annoyed about an 80 year old driver who has narrowly escaped 10 crashes thanks to the other drivers skill complaing about young drivers.


Just because I have only owned a cobra for a month doesn't mean I have never been behind the wheel of a performance car before.

Knowing the size of an engine really means nothing other than from the numbers you might know if you are looking at a SB or a BB and even this means nothing any more as some engines with the cubic displacement of say 427 may be a SB or a BB. What you are really after is the actually horse power rating of the engine in that particular Cobra. But without an actual Dyno test of the engine knowing the true HP would often be hard to come by. Then you have to look into the weight of the Cobra where 2,100 lbs. with a 90 inch wheelbase is the norm but what if the Cobra comes in closer to 3,400 lbs. and has the wheel base of a C3 Corvette as mine does, hell I’m sure that it even passed a crash test for Chevy before it was put on the road. The 454 LS6 BB back in 1970 even had Chevy lying about its real HP rating as it was given a rating of only 450HP. Today the stock Corvette with an entirely different rating system has their SB at 405HP and a SB ZO6 at 500HP and they are working on a 600-700HP engine for future years.

More than once someone brought up limitting the coverage. I likely have less in my Cobra than most, and I chose less coverage, as well. But for the life of me, I do not understand why anyone would suggest that other peoples investment should not be covered. If someone has a top of the line replicar that is worth $150K, why should they be singled out, and not be allowed to insure their investment? I bet the guy who just paid $5 million for Shelby's former car would be shocked to hear he could only insure it for $50K.

Midwest Classic... You're a class act!

Thanks for bringing this topic to us. Good information for when I need to insure the "little" 289 FIA! :rolleyes:

I really can not answer your question about how many we insure. We have been insuring a lot more in the past three years than the prior twenty-seven I have been insuring vehicles. We do not track how many of a particular vehicle we insure but I do know that Cobras are becoming the larger part of a single style vehicle we insure, if that makes sense.

When I looked at numbers I originally looked at my last quarterly report and then we went back and looked at the past three years at all claims over $10,000. That is where the Cobras really showed up.

Keep in mind I am not the Company, I am an agency. We get paid two different ways. The first on commission so the more we write the more I make, the second on contingency which is if we have a good loss ratio we can generally get an override on the total book. I am wanting to continue writing Cobras but as a profitable part of the book of business. If the Company would stop writing Cobras, I lose. That is the reason I started the thread just to get some ideas and make people that own the cars aware of what I see, could be lurking in their future.

There is no number twisting done on my part, just information I wanted to pass on to any interested party.

Thanks for the response and questions.

Robbin

Thanks for the post, just trying to be of some assistance. Kind of like when I get called to help someone with the ambulance & rescue service I volunteer for, if you can help one every once in awhile it is all worth it.

I am sure you do not maintain this info, but I would be interested to know how many of these tall claim were from people who ACTUALLY built their cars. I just feel like people who spend YEARS building their cars, have a better appreciation and respect for what goes into them. Not to say that there aren't people out there who do stupid things intheir cars that they built, just that my general assumption would be that they have a better understanding of what they're getting into. Kind of like when mommy and daddy buy their 16 yr old a really nice car. I had to buy my first car, so you better believe I made sure it was taken care of because if I broke it, I was also paying to have it fixed!

Personally, i plan to insure my car at exactly what I have in parts BOUGHT. Since I already have my engine and tranny, parts bought will be the kit and wheels/tires for the most part. If I wreck the car, I'll strip the good parts off of it, and build another. It's part of the fun! Again, part of why I believe that the majority of these claims are Bought cars, Not built cars.

Josh

I am not sure how many were actually built by the owners but most were rollers to start with. I agree with you about putting the time into the car and should have a better appreciation for the car but on the other hand, we now have to know how much knowledge the builder has in building a car.

From a Company's perspective they look at the home builder as a person reviewing a video tape and an instruction guide to build the car, if they do something wrong and cause a costly accident there is nothing they can really do but write the check. On the other hand if a commercial builder builds the car and something is mechanically wrong with it and causes the same accident they can go back and subrogate against this builder and error he made in the assembly.

Kind of a catch 22.

None of the claims we experienced were from any fault of a builder.

I could see that I guess. I have read quite a few build journals where the people came right out and said they had no mechanical ability before starting the build.

Maybe it's because I have the ability to build another kit fairly easily that I am willing to insure for alot less than value? My best friend is a painter by profession so that's easy, I'll do all the work and he'll spray it.

I would definitely agree that higher deductibles would be good. It'd keep the little claims out at least. i know if I have $1000 worth of damages and a $500 deduct on my daily cars, I fix it myself. It's not worth an insurance claim. My wife put her car in the ditch a few months ago, the whole passenger side was messed up. I did the bodywork, paid for the materials and my friend repainted it. The repair quote was $3453, my deduct is $500. It cost me about $700 in materials and parts, plus about 10hrs of labor on my part. No insurance claim!

How about... if you have an at fault accident in a cobra, you get dropped?

I do like others requests for no milieage restrictions. I mean, I plan to do power tour with my friend in my cobra. there goes almost 2,000 miles right there! haha

I think people just need to be held accountable for THIER actions! PERIOD!