rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[CHANMADD]

I certainly do not see myself "fire selling" my car any time soon.

[bret a ewing]

Cobraviper,

Why CS and ultimately Ford?

Vicarious responsibility.

[cobraviper_99]

Reasonable men can disagree reasonably. I originally began this thread with an observation and some personal opinions. Some of the responses have been thoughtful and measured. One or two, I felt were not. So be it.

Everyone has their own agenda here and I think it's painfully obvious how my premise has been bloviated by some to enhance their personal biases.

Cobrabill, I'm sure you feel secure in your understanding of the origins of the GTO and I respectfully accept that. But over the course of my 25-year career in automotive television, I've personally spoken to and interviewed a host of people directly involved in the GTO story. Yes, Jim Wangers and I have had more than a few conversations when I wrote and produced "Wild About Wheels" for the Discovery Channel in 1992-93. I covered NHRA Drag Racing for ESPN for 12 years and have had many an informative conversation with Arnie Beswick. I was in the audience at his induction into the International Drag Racing Hall of Fame in Ocala, FL several years ago. I have also had many a conversation with Don Gay and his son, Don Gay Jr. from Texas, who also campaigned many drag racing GTO's for a long time. One of the fastest cars I ever owned was a 1967 GTO convertible that I bought for $250.00 in 1971.

This isn't intended to be an "I know more then you do" rave because the entire automotive hobby has a long tradition of bench racing and friendly debate. We're all wrong some of the time--perhaps more times than we realize. It's just that as an incurable motorhead, my profession has given me the privilege of meeting, speaking to, and becoming friends with a rather lengthy list of car guys who are many times more honest and candid privately than they are publicly.

Anonymity is a useful method of covering one's tracks. If you have a moment, you can go to www.ult-garage.com see where I'm coming from.

[TerrysSPF]

Your post(s) make for good reading, cobraviper, but I don't see the connections that you are trying to make. -Apples and oranges, IMO.

Now, had Delorean come out a few years ago and said that he found several 64 Tempest bodies in a warehouse and he was going to turn them into GTO's and sell them for a half-million bucks each,..........I think you would have seen the current GTO owners raising a little hell.

[bret a ewing]

Yup Bill,

I know and respect your resume. As a reference qualifier it has weight.

But the issue is, MANY here also have first hand dealings and history with CS.....for better or worse. So this becomes a personality vote, with real examples for validating said vote.

So, of course you are entitled to your own "opinion", but realize that is all it is.

Edit for grammer

[cobraviper_99]

Thanks, Brent. I think what has happened in the course of this thread is that somehow my position has been misconstrued. All I came with was an opinion. I found it interesting that in the history of unscrupulous automotive front men ( and there have been many), their tainted reputations and in some instances felonious business practices failed to diminish the loyalty and enthusiasm of those who were drawn to their cars. Is that so convoluted a scenario?

If you were to rifle back through the innumerable posts on this board that address such topics as "What replica should I build/buy?", or the dreaded "Is a Continuation Cobra a REAL Cobra?", you'll find many posts in which Cobra enthusiasts have an emerging reluctance to purchase a New Generation Shelby because of recent events pertaining to Shelby's lawsuits, business relationships, the SAAC divorce, etc. But I hasten to add: I'm not painting this picture with too fine a brush. I'm not making head-to-head comparisons between Shelby, Ferrari, Delorean, Bricklin, M-B. etc. At the risk of redundancy, I direct your attention to the first paragraph of this post.

What Shelby did, didn't do, when he did or didn't do it, what his motivations were--sincere or evil--who were his accomplices or victims, how crooked were his intentions, was he more culpable than Delorean, Ferrari, Bricklin, etc. or just playing by the New Rules of Business are all arguments that would take a long time to unravel. "Shelby did this but Delorean never did that....." takes us far afield from the simple idea that the disapproval within the Cobra community of what is transpiring in the corporate offices of Shelby Automobiles is affecting the desire for his cars within that community. I have yet to see that kind of ripple effect within other enthusiast groups which celebrate automobiles that had been manufactured by zealous entrepeneurs who were morally or ethically challenged.

That's the best I can do.

[Trevor Legate]

Slightly off-topic and on a point of order - Mr.DeLorean stole £80 million (160,000,000 of your greenback dollars) from the British public, not the Irish, as his 'factory' was based in Northern Ireland, not the Republic of. So he stole money from me. Do I forgive that thief? Errr - no. Hope he's warm where he's spending (hopefully) eternity.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Slightly off-topic and on a point of order - Mr.DeLorean stole £80 million (160,000,000 of your greenback dollars) from the British public, not the Irish, as his 'factory' was based in Northern Ireland, not the Republic of. So he stole money from me. Do I forgive that thief?

I think our governments are responsible for stealing alot more than that.

[Excaliber]

I've had a bunch of interesting cars over the years, been a member of a few clubs. None have even come close to the PASSION I have seen with Cobra owners. Especially true with THIS group of owners is how they like to DRIVE their cars, and drive them hard. If there was ever a 'Type A personality' car club, it's a Cobra Club!

For the most part, outspoken, independant and brash, and it is done with 'respect'. The 'respect' thread Brent posted is fitting all right, but were no where near what he was talking about in that thread. Were pretty much just par for the course as far as attitude goes on this thread.

I have no doubt, by the way, when it 'hit the fan' with folks like DeLorean and others there were many potential buyers that at the time, walked away or even sold their car.

[Jamo]

cobraviper99

Looks like your premise is not finding favor. But that's fine...everyone has a different opinion around here.

Folks can read your post, and you've restated it several times...so don't blame the fact folks disagree with you on someone else's posted opinion.

[cobraviper_99]

I will respectfully submit that I didn't expect a tidal wave of agreement, and certainly wasn't seeking it. I'm in the media. The first thing that we learn is that there's no such thing as 100% agreement on anything. I will say that your crowd estimates are a bit conservative. I've had this conversation with other enthusiasts at various gatherings ever since the Shelby turmoil began hitting the street and many I have spoken to not only understood my premise but have concurred with it.

[Jamo]

Trev...you just can't trust folks with perfect hair.

[StreetSnake]

For all the experts, and not, could you please give a "HIGH LINE" interpertation on what is going on. Many people may be concerned but not know what the specifices are.
Thanks

[Jamo]

cv99

Well, maybe the dumbasses around here just know too much.

I'm in law...first thing we learn is that if our argument doesn't catch on, try another.

[RACER X #99]

Originally Posted by Jamo

I'm in law...first thing we learn is that if our argument doesn't catch on, try another.

Obviously some others in law would disagree with you.

[Jamo]

BTW...enjoyed the Garlits book.

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Jamo

BTW...enjoyed the Garlits book.

I believe this will be a book by the time it's done

[RACER X #99]

Bill Stephens,
I still enjoy the Video you made at SAAC Watkins Glen back in 93. If I can remember where it is I will have another look tonight.

[Jamo]

Hehee...

There are two kinds of lawyers, Rog. Stubborn ones and winners.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Hehee...

There are two kinds of lawyers, Rog. Stubborn ones and winners.

I know of a third type of lawyer, but he who shall not be named in this thread might disagree..Either that or think that we might be singling him out because of his replica of an original


Bill S.