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-   ALL COBRA TALK (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/)
-   -   Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/88170-original-4-inch-vs-billet-poll.html)

big-boss 06-08-2008 01:43 PM
I knew this would eventually come up.
So prior to KMP 172 are the most original of the Kirkhams that are copies of the "real" Cobra. When we all go in the "KIRKHAM" Car regestry should they be KMP Series I, II, III, etc? That would be cool.

Also, Are the SS chasis's stiffer? I have not had my car on the track yet. But just driving around it seems tighter than any Cobra I have had. Even when jcaked up it seems stiffer.

kris-kincaid 06-08-2008 02:35 PM
David, no 427 Shelby's ever used weldment uprights. Thats a Shelby 289 thing only. :)

I'm all about original myself. On my car I have scrounged together a completely original style suspension, other than the brakes. If I could afford Girlings, it would have those too. When I build my FIA, it is going to have completely original suspension too with no adjustments available except toe in the front.

I've never driven an original style Cobra and thought it had handling problems. I REALLY like to drive 289's. I drive these cars gently and I don't abuse them, so maybe thats why I enjoy them as is without all the racy stuff. :MECOOL:

David Kirkham 06-08-2008 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by big-boss (Post 850052)
I knew this would eventually come up.
So prior to KMP 172 are the most original of the Kirkhams that are copies of the "real" Cobra. When we all go in the "KIRKHAM" Car regestry should they be KMP Series I, II, III, etc? That would be cool.

Also, Are the SS chasis's stiffer? I have not had my car on the track yet. But just driving around it seems tighter than any Cobra I have had. Even when jcaked up it seems stiffer.
Actually, the stainless chassis is slightly less stiff compared to the steel chassis. But it is actually quite a small difference.

David
:):):)

David Kirkham 06-08-2008 08:26 PM
The reason all of our cars are in the Registry is because any of them could very easily be converted to an original spec car and then be used by bad guys for nefarious purposes. It is a simple matter of just unbolting things and bolting the original stuff back on.

David
:):):)

David Kirkham 06-08-2008 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kris-kincaid (Post 850069)
David, no 427 Shelby's ever used weldment uprights. Thats a Shelby 289 thing only. :)

I'm all about original myself. On my car I have scrounged together a completely original style suspension, other than the brakes. If I could afford Girlings, it would have those too. When I build my FIA, it is going to have completely original suspension too with no adjustments available except toe in the front.

I've never driven an original style Cobra and thought it had handling problems. I REALLY like to drive 289's. I drive these cars gently and I don't abuse them, so maybe thats why I enjoy them as is without all the racy stuff. :MECOOL:
Thanks for the inside info! You have to get really on the cars before the really evil things start to show rear their ugly heads.

David
:):):)

Hoofa 06-09-2008 10:23 AM
I was on the beach this weekend dreaming about chassis'. I don't think it would be practical for the numbers here, but to make this chassis available to the masses. This process might come in handy: http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global...nnovation.html

If you already have the files in Solidworks it seems as if it would only be a couple clicks away for a mold???? But then again I haven't gotten to that area of Solidworks yet.

David Kirkham 06-09-2008 10:27 AM
Looks like a cool process. I will look further into it. Just from a quick glance I would hate to have to pay for the mold!

David
:):):)

Dan Stryffeler 06-09-2008 11:09 AM
I voted for the original tube w/Kirkham billet suspension...

Have to agree with some other posters; my preference is the 60's type experience when driving the car (including carb's vs modern fuel injection) and replace/upgrade where it's practical - tires, shocks, electrical, etc.

I am very happy with the conversion tubular suspension stuff I have on my EM.

I don't race or push the car too hard - age 48 comin on up on 49, so I fit into your stats on age vs. technology I guess...

Dan

Johnson 06-09-2008 01:30 PM
I think the billet definitely looks cool, but if you are going with the billet, why not a transaxle like the GR1 or Corvette (Kind of like Leno did in his Toranado)? I don’t know what would look cooler with that billet chassis, halibrands with Goodyear BB’s so at a glance it looks old school or BIG wheels so you see the suspension and chassis from a distance? Maybe you should compliment it with something that looks equally as cool on a cobra as halibrands, but are not halibrands, make them spline drive knock-offs with lots of open space to see that chassis. Then if you use the billet chassis and big wheels you need to add stack injection to give it that retro look.

goof2 06-10-2008 06:58 PM
I voted billet but I was curious about what the difference in weight is between the billet and tubular stainless chassis. That was also using your assumption that the price would remain the same between the two. With the difference in price I would opt for the stainless chassis with billet suspension components.

I can't wait to see what kind of original car the masterminds of Kirkham come up with. My guess is it will set the industry on its ear. All I ask is don't stop making Cobras (at least until I can afford one).

David Kirkham 06-10-2008 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson (Post 850299)
I think the billet definitely looks cool, but if you are going with the billet, why not a transaxle like the GR1 or Corvette (Kind of like Leno did in his Toranado)? I don’t know what would look cooler with that billet chassis, halibrands with Goodyear BB’s so at a glance it looks old school or BIG wheels so you see the suspension and chassis from a distance? Maybe you should compliment it with something that looks equally as cool on a cobra as halibrands, but are not halibrands, make them spline drive knock-offs with lots of open space to see that chassis. Then if you use the billet chassis and big wheels you need to add stack injection to give it that retro look.
We can't go with a transaxle because there is simply no room to do so. The area in the cockpit is extremely tight. We will be using a wheel that looks like the original Cobra--but we will be making them ourselves. We want the car to "look" right.

David
:):):)

David Kirkham 06-10-2008 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 850722)
I voted billet but I was curious about what the difference in weight is between the billet and tubular stainless chassis. That was also using your assumption that the price would remain the same between the two. With the difference in price I would opt for the stainless chassis with billet suspension components.

I can't wait to see what kind of original car the masterminds of Kirkham come up with. My guess is it will set the industry on its ear. All I ask is don't stop making Cobras (at least until I can afford one).
The weight difference between a stainless chassis and a steel chassis is around 20 pounds. The difference between our billet chassis and the original chassis is about 20 pounds as well. The problem is, I can't remember which car (steel or stainless) we compared the billet chassis to!:LOL:

I will have to go back an look at the numbers...or, just wait until we drive it here in a few days.

David
:):):)

alpace@pacificp 06-10-2008 10:48 PM
Old School
 
David,

As you know, I am a bit of a novice, notwithstanding considerable research into the deep, dark recesses of the dysfunctional cobra world. Notwithstanding, I have to say that being able to relate to others that the frame is 'tube,old school' goes a long way.

As someone already thinking about a 'second' Kirkham (I have two boys), I would opt for tube, steel. Old School.

But about those magnesium wheels......

al

David Kirkham 06-11-2008 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpace@pacificp (Post 850771)
David,

As you know, I am a bit of a novice, notwithstanding considerable research into the deep, dark recesses of the dysfunctional cobra world. Notwithstanding, I have to say that being able to relate to others that the frame is 'tube,old school' goes a long way.

As someone already thinking about a 'second' Kirkham (I have two boys), I would opt for tube, steel. Old School.

But about those magnesium wheels......

al
From the poll I can see we aren't going to be throwing the tooling for the original chassis away any time soon :LOL:

I'm glad to see there are a lot of people who love the billet stuff as well. Funny, when we started, every one wanted everything as original as possible, right down to a date coded dip stick! "Date coded; man I haven't heard that word in a long, long time!

David
:):):)

David
:):):)

decooney 06-11-2008 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham (Post 851078)
From the poll I can see we aren't going to be throwing the tooling for the original chassis away any time soon :LOL:

I'm glad to see there are a lot of people who love the billet stuff as well. Funny, when we started, every one wanted everything as original as possible, right down to a date coded dip stick! "Date coded; man I haven't heard that word in a long, long time!

David
:):):)
Looking at it from a different (maybe stupid) angle... If this situation became a "this or that, but not both options type of decision", I'd be curious what the vote results would be if you asked all of your existing KMP Cobra owners if they (hypothetically) could trade their existing tube chassis cars for billet chassis cars straight across, with no chance to ever obtain or purchase a tube chassis car again, what would they actually vote for?

ENTDOC 06-11-2008 09:00 PM
no trade here

goof2 06-11-2008 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham (Post 850731)
The weight difference between a stainless chassis and a steel chassis is around 20 pounds. The difference between our billet chassis and the original chassis is about 20 pounds as well. The problem is, I can't remember which car (steel or stainless) we compared the billet chassis to!:LOL:

I will have to go back an look at the numbers...or, just wait until we drive it here in a few days.

David
:):):)
No need to look back on my account as it is all academic for me at this point anyway. I had assumed the difference in weight would have been on the order of 100 to 200 pounds. For the tuneability and responsiveness that should result from the 300% increase in stiffness I would deal with the extra 40 pounds. If 40 pounds were that big a deal I would loose the weight myself.

David Kirkham 06-11-2008 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 851134)
No need to look back on my account as it is all academic for me at this point anyway. I had assumed the difference in weight would have been on the order of 100 to 200 pounds. For the tuneability and responsiveness that should result from the 300% increase in stiffness I would deal with the extra 40 pounds. If 40 pounds were that big a deal I would loose the weight myself.
I've often thought while working on this billet chassis how much easier it was to remove weight from the car than it was to remove weight from my middle!

David
%/%/%/

COBRANIP 06-12-2008 12:32 AM
David,
Won't the billet frame (especially with pushrod suspension) result in a higher center of gravity (relative to the tube frame)? If so any idea how much difference?
Thanks for expanding all our horizons.

John

Ronbo 06-14-2008 10:16 PM
Quote:
I've often thought while working on this billet chassis how much easier it was to remove weight from the car than it was to remove weight from my middle!
That's a tough one, time on the computer to take more pounds off, however it has the reverse effect on the programmer.

Here's a tip: keep all snacks out of reach of the desk, preferrably on the opposite end of the building.;)

Personally, I judge how tough a project was by how many pots of coffee and packs of smokes it takes to complete it...;)


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