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Slick;
At one track I run I go from 4th to 2cd off the straight to turn one,I prefer to go thru the gears as I brake,do not know if that is the "right" way to do it,but it works for me,and my brakes are not the best there is,so the downshifting thru the gears helps in slowing the car down.. I have also found on some turns it is better for me to stay in one gear then do an extra shift,just one less thing I have to worry about and it gives me more time to concentrate on the entry........ David |
My brakes aren't great, I usually brake early and downshift through the gears to save them. Using the clutch by the way, NOT blipping the throttle, and sometimes even double clutching to save the synchros
Obviously not the quick way around. :D |
Ernie and David,
I have always gone to the gear required for corner exit as opposed to "going down through the gears". (Note: except in a sequential box, but you really do not ever engage the gears as you go through them if you do it right.) I have found that I do not have the necessary time during the braking period to do anything but select the gear required. It has also been my experience that engine braking is not as effective as the brakes alone. I have actually seen from telemetry that using engine braking increases braking distance considerably as the engine speed will not slow down as quickly as the brakes will pull the car down. (Note: this only on high rotating mass engines such as what is normally found in a Cobra.) |
Michael,
Learning the line is exactly what I work on each time out. I probably didn't explain it well when I said I was "listening". I've ridden with instructors a few times. I'm watching very closely the line that they're driving. When they turn in, where the apex is, etc.... But at the same time, I'm trying to listen and hear when they get out of the gas and when they get back on it. Steve |
I agree with Richard, one downshirt, no rowing. I can brake harder with out multiple blips. Also, if a big acceleration zone follows the corner, I am more likely to down shift as every mph off the corner matters for the length of the straight. If another corner closely follows, I might not downshift as the car will be less on edge entering and exiting the corner. Scott
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If you really want to get it serious you need to set up your gear box so that your lowest gear is used for the slowest corner - no need to waste gears.
Randy |
You know I feel better now, some how I thought it was only me that couldn't "heel\brake" without loosing braking pedal pressure when I rolled my foot to "blip" the throttle.
Sounds like that happens to everybody. If you JUST do the brake pedal you CAN put my force directly on it. From 4th to 1st, I'm going in! :D |
Missed Shift
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I never said that. I do not lose foot pressure while "heel and toeing". I found the real problem in learning the technique was to not over pressure the brakes and cause lockup. Of course you need to set up the pedals correctly for your particular method of "Heel and Toe". |
Ha ha,,, I hear you Richard. :D But I suspect I'm not the only one that has trouble keeping good pressure/control on that brake pedal doing the heel/toe thing. That DOES take time to master.
The brakes in the Formula Ford and my ERA are both manual and you really have to press hard to get max performance out of them. |
One caution about skipping gears on the way down and going directly from 4th to 1st (or whatever): Be sure to wait until very late in the braking zone to do this so you don't over-rev the engine.
When I started driving, I used to go directly to the gear I wanted. I found I was consistently early in my downshifting, which at best was less than smooth and caused the chassis to unsettle. At worst, it caused rear lockups and was definitely not good for the engine. So, an instructor suggested I go through each gear until I got better at it. After twenty plus years of driving on tracks, I still have this habit of using all the gears. I really should switch back to just selecting the gear I need, but I'm an old dog now, so who knows what I can still learn. Mike |
Mike,
You are quite correct. I find that I wish to be in the gear required right at the point that I need to pick up the throttle for corner exit. I spent a lot of time in the early days locking up the rear due to improper timing of downshifts. It took me many hours of track time to get it right. But, something odd. Once you get it, it is like a bicycle. You do not forget. |
Well there was that time I was coming into a corner, braking hard and the brakes were suddenly gone. Leaving me going WAY to fast, I pulled the gear shift hard into second and let the clutch out. Hopeing it would at least lock up the rear, hell with blow the motor. Worked out rather nicely, put me sideways and I drifted that corner looking like I had it all under control.
...had to change underwear though. :D |
I think the common point here on all of this is practice,practice and more practice........I'm terrible at heel/toe,but still trying and learning everytime I'm on the track......
Second time out I decided that left foot braking would help my lap times,even though my instructor advised against it for a newbie like me,so I went out and was "resting" my left foot on the brake pedal,green flag drops,I'm in third gear about 60mph,put the pedal to the metal,watching the tach,getting ready to shift to forth at about 100 mph,let off the gas for an instant and slam the brake pedal down to shift,very ugly,rear end locked up,car went sideways a little,more embarresed than I care to admit,after the session an instructor riding behind me wanted to know just "what the hell happened",I was so embarresed I could hardly tell him,then he burst out laughing and told me to quit trying to be the fastest guy out there and just have fun.......I finally "settled down" and did have fun and my lap times did improve..........practice,practice and more practice............ David |
I used to row, but with the jerrico, I can wait until very late, right before turn in, quick blip and in the gear it goes. I used to down shift much earlier in the brake zone, not any more. The tremec seemed to be tougher to down shift quickly. Scott
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David, good story, I'm still chuckling. :D
Blip and shift with no clutch on the Formula Ford with those straight cut teeth was one thing. I just can't bring myself to do that with my top loader. Are you guys doing that with yours? |
No way, last I checked I still have all my teeth on my gears and I really like it that way. A lot of the drag racers cut teeth for "Blip Shifting" but it is not what I wanted.
Blip, Clutch and shift for me. Clois |
Clois,
Not about downshifting but one of the guys on the SVT site has a great quote about late breaking. "My braking point entering a corner is when I see the corner worker raising the yellow flag for me". I like his style. **) :LOL: **) :LOL: |
Good Quote Racer 99.
I had a method when I went to new tracks to determine the braking points that really worked well for me. I would go out and do about three laps to become familar with the track and go as quick as one would do for a endurance race. Then I would do a couple of laps as quick as I felt was proper for a sprint race. I would then go to the pits and we would check everything to prepare for another run. Then I would go out and run a couple of laps to get temp in the tires. And then on the very next lap, I would half my previous braking distances. It would sometimes put me in the dirt, but most of the time it put where I needed to be. |
Late braking is not always the fast way around a corner.......
If the car setup is right then then Brake, Turn steering with you foot on the throttle....start to apply throttle ....hit apex(not 2"away)..... apply more throttle .....exit more throttle use all of track....more throttle..... Exit location will tell you where to turn in..... Throttle control us more important than brake....especially with high horsepower cars..... That's why the linkage is so important to be smooth with throttle.... Morris |
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