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Clutch Forks
I was trying to put my vehicle back together today and with the new QT bellhousing it looks like I need a different clutch fork. I think I need #16935 as the older fork does not have enough bend to allow for full engagement. Anyone using this combination or had issues with matching forks?
Phil |
I used the Quicktime housing and had to do several things to get things to line up. It took a long time to sort all of this out, but I used the original fork.
First, I had to get a spacer block from ERA. See manual, about page 36, section on clutch slave cylinder. Next, I had to increase the size of the clutch master cylinder to 1.0 inch to get enough fluid to the slave cylinder. This increased the pedal effort, but still not too bad. Finally, I had to trim some metal away from the bellhousing flange to fully clear the slave cylinder. I think The issue relates to the type clutch disc you choose. Mine has the very long fingers which I suspect cause the problem. |
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I tried moving and adjusting a good part of the day and just could not get enough movement of the fork to fully engage and still release to not rub the throwout bearing. I tried it before I put it all back together and seemed to be enough, but not so. Is there any way to bend the clutch fork? Neither Summit or Jegs have the one I need.
Phil |
Phil - I got my clutch fork from Brent for my Quicktime. I have a small input Toploader. I suggest checking with him.
I guess you tried shimming under the fork ball to move it forward and back to see if there was a position it cleared? Generally you want the outer part of the fork positioned not far off the front of the fork opening in the bellhousing so it will stroke fully without bottoming on the rear of the opening. I'm sure I'm stating things you already know. I didn't have any interference problems. I did change to a 7/8 inch master cylinder to shorten the pedal stroke. But I assume you had functioning hydraulics with your other Lakewood BH so it should work with this one. |
I had this same issue when installing a new clutch. I solved it by putting an .080 shim under the fork fulcrum, to move the fork forward, as DanEC says. You can make the shim out of scrap metal.
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I've always had a master and slave cylinder set up and haven't been fully satisfied with high rpm shifting. It seemed there wasn't quite enough TOB extension and the gears felt like there wasn't complete disengagement of the single disc clutch. The bellhouse was a Lakewood unit, and the master/slave cylinders were Girling.
This year I had installed a Quicktime bellhouse and McLeod Twin Disc clutches and still had the same master/slave cylinder set up. I also had clutch fork fitment issues with the new Quicktime bellhouse. And now the problem of incomplete clutch disengagement was a bit more evident than the old Lakewood bellhouse and single disc. I've been concerned about premature synchro wear as a result. Last week I purchased a hydraulic throwout bearing from David Kee Toploaders. His description of that type TOB indicates it will provide substantially more TOB travel than my prior set up. Next spring after I've sorted through other more serious issues, I'll install the hydraulic TOB and look forward to easier shifting. If any owners who already have a hydraulic TOB would like to post your satisfaction or lack of satisfaction with the HTOB, I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks, David |
The clutch fork I have was for a Lakewood bellhousing and a mechanical TO bearing. The fork is rather flat. I used a longer 5/16ths pushrod from the clutch slave cylinder to get greater engagement, but it just doesn't push the throwout bearing into the pressure plate fingers in far enough. The more I adjust it to do so, the throwout bearing then rests against the clutch fingers. I am thinking that the 16935 which shows a greater bend will allow for more movement with less movement from the slave cylinder.
Phil |
The Lakewood bell uses standard Ford forks. It will depend if you have a large or small input trans.
I would be surprised if QT required their own special fork. John |
601,
I recently converted my HTOB to an external slave and fork. Why?? Because I had several failures that required a replacement twice, a rebuild once. All Mcleod. To do any work on them you must drop the trans. It was always a tough bleed to purge all the air. I would not recommend but others have had better luck than me for sure. I did find the Wiwood master cylinder has a slightly longer throw for more movement in the slave. That might help your full disengagement issue. Also I am using a Lakewood w/ a Ram clutch single disc w/ the diaphragm fingers. The clutch fork had to be cut short because of frame clearance issues. Also had to clean up some of the sloppy welds and install a button head bolt to allow the fork to clear the bolt head where the bell bolts onto the trans. TKO600. With all the little finesse and massaging it all works great. Good luck, John |
Quote:
You can see this spring in the following: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps9f414678.jpg You can see the approximate angle of my clutch fork in this photo. I don't know what fork a Tremec should use. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps9f25a3f2.jpg Don't know if any of this helps. :confused: |
Dan,
I will try to post some pics tonight. I had to move the slave cylinder closer to the bellhousing. That gave me a little movement but not quite enoough. I am not using any spacers and the slave cylinder does not seem to gave quite enough movement for full engagement. I will try working with it again tonight. Its engaging, but it does not seem like its pushing the clutch fingers all the way down. In addition, with a return spring, it does not pull the clutch fork far enough away from the throw out bearing. The bearing seems to be resting against the clutch with the clutch pedal out. This is being driven by how far I have to adjust thr pushrod toward the clutch fork to get full or close to full engagement. Phil |
Phil
You may need a stiffer return spring or maybe two concentric ones like are used on throttle return. I'm not sure that a little light contact with the clutch fingers is necessarily an issue as long as there isn't any load on it - maybe some others can weigh in on this??? I know that as long as the pedal travel is in the ERA setup, unless you adjust for very minimal free play, you have to shove the pedal nearly all the way to the end of the foot box to fully stroke the slave cylinder and disengage the clutch. Are you pretty sure you have all the air out of the slave cylinder? I had some problem with that until I realized I did not have the cylinder rotated in the housing to where the bleeder screw was right at the top. |
Thanks Dan for the good advice. I will check tonight for sure..
Phil |
Did some more tweaking and decided to put it together and fire it up. It had been a while since I ran so after some coaxing with starter fluid I started it up. Everything went into gear so I pulled it out of the garage. The engine was idling a little fast. It went into reverse much more easier even with the high idling. Will try to find a stronger return spring and try to take it out for a short run tomorrow night to run through the gears. I did make sure there was no air in the lines.
Phil |
All right - possibly success! :)
Does this mean the machine shop fixed your starter plate and the gears seem to be meshing OK now? |
I took it out for a short spin tonight. Seems to go in an out of gear fine. Reverse seems much easier. I think I still need to tweak the adjustment some. I have to put the seats back in and put everything back together.
When I aligned the Bellhousing, the starter was much closer to the flywheel. It seems to be working. Time will tell. Used actual starter bolts and the starter is locked in position. I think I will tackle the pan gasket this winter as seems to be leaking a little near the rear. Thanks for all the advice gents. Its invaluable to this less experienced back yard mechanic. (: Phil |
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