runnig hot on hot days
 

Lately I've been chasing a water tempreture problem and so I thought I would post to get some opinions.
I know that there have been a number of posts on the subject but I here's the details.

I have :
-FE406, iron heads, performance cam
-5.5gal cooling system with a 4.5" 4core custom brass radiator.(probably should have gone Alum. but didn't because this was a special fit made by Butler for the car)
-180 thermostat
-Black magic electric fan (set to come on at 190 however I have a manual override and have tried turning it on at 170 with no differance)
- 2"Steel tube upper & lower rad lines to short hoses to make the final connection.
-Timing is at 10BTDC
Had 50/50 coolant now 25% Water wetter w/distilled water (no change)
No air in the system filled it at an incline
3.54 gears W/top loader

The problem is that recently (this summer) the car runs at 190 to 205 on the highway@70mph on 80-90 degree days and on 90+ degree days it can get up to 215+. Around town it runs at 185-195. At night with high 70's temp it runs cool 170-185 in traffic and 160-175 highway. Last year even on hot days 90+ the temp stayed around 185- 190. With no changes to anything the car is now running about 15 degrees hotter on the highway and even hotter in traffic on those same days. I would suspect maybe a headgasket, obstruction, partial opening thermostat lean fuel but I run cool at night or on cooler days so it appears to me that it's something else


thoughts???

Thanks,
Mike Monster

Maybe your temp indicater went bad.

Radiator?

What is the total timing?

Mike

I'd start with the thermostat--cheapest, easiest--and why not put in a 160 while you're at it.

I've actually decided to start very basic, I've picked up another bottle of WW and I'm going to try that first. The range of coverage for a bottle of WW is "1 bottle per12 to 20 quart system", I'm actually closer to 6 gal. or 24 qts. so I figure that being close to the limit of coverage, I may not be getting the full benefit of the product. @ $4.99 a bottle its jsut as cheap as a thermostat and easier to install. Anyway my approach to diagnostics is to first check all settings and make sure everything is within spec. So, we'll see if I need to spend another $4.99 on a thermostat after I test the car tomorrow.

Also on the subject of 160 vs. 180 thermostat I'm not sure I follow the logic. A 160 will open sooner however, the engine does not continue to run at 160. Most will continue to increase in temp to around 180-185 I would guess. A 180 will not open full until 180 however, both the 160 and the 180 are open full once the engine is at operating temp which as I said I believe is normally 180-185. Plus, most electric fan thermo switches turn the fans on at 195+ so the engines would seem to always exceed the 180 mark and the thermostat should always be open full. So,What is the benefit of running a cooler thermostat?

Thanks,
Mike 'monster'

I think you have already hit on a key point to help diagnose the problem. That is your comment that the car ran cooler last year and that you had not changed anything means the current cooling sytem is up to the job. Just something has changed. I suggest diagnosing the problem before throwing parts at it.

1. Check your current gauge. Put another gauge on and compare.
2. Remove your current thermostat and place it in water on the stove with a thermometer and monitor the opening point. And that it opens fully.
3. Get and infrared thermometer gun. Check the temp at the themostat housing. If the thermostat is OK the temp should read within 10 degrees. Check the inlet of the radiator, and the outlet. The outlet temp should be 25 degrees cooler than the inlet temp. If not your radiator is not transfering heat well. Could be clogged, your fan is not moving enough air (low amperage), your moving water too fast through the system.
4. If you blew a head gasket you will have a pressure build up in the cooling system.

Now some answers to the above checks.
1. Since it heats up both when you are driving at speed and driving in traffic. It is probably not your electric fan. Otherwise it would only overheat when in traffic.
2. It's probably not you thermostat. Otherwise it would way overheat without any control.
3. Since the temperature does stabilize (if I read your comments correctly) It appears to be heat transfer out of the radiator or water movement through the system. This may sound stupid but check and make sure your water pump drive belt is tight. Pull your radiator and get it cleaned out. Sediment can build up quickly if a car sits for a long peroid of time without running.


These are many possibles but please keep in mind it was fine last year. So your solution is not to buy new parts until you find what has changed.

I would stop wasting my money on water wetter.

Are you sure nothing was changed from last year to this year?

Have you at least checked the total timing?:confused:

As I said in an earlier post on this thread " my approach to diagnostics is to first check all settings and make sure everything is within spec. " so yes the timing is correct. I did post the thermostat question of "CC "Shop Talk" and I think I my now understand how the thermostat can affect the running temp on hot days. I am going to take ..........................this is hard for me to put in print :LOL: .............Jamo's suggestion and change out to a lowwer value thermostat and see if that be this issue.

Thanks all................ and my Butler buddy Jamo, I'll let you know .............Hey, I just realized that I'm on the "FE Talk" Forum, Jamo what the heck are you doing here, you have a 351:LOL:

Thanks,
Mike "monster"

I have decided to become a troll--they seem to have more fun.:JEKYLHYDE

Well,
I thought that I would bring this back to the top since I do have an update. Since I had done all of the usual checks (thermostat, coolant, radiator, head gaskets, timing, air flow through the radiator, fan operation) I started thinking about the actual flow presure of the water circulating in the system. I looked into a number of waterpumps and contacted manufacturers. One of which was Brassworks who makes FlowKooler waterpumps, I read an article and these guys appeared to know Ford FE's so I called. I was told that under normal operation (up to 3300 RPM) that their products would help, however if I run at 3000+ I should consider getting an Edelbrock (reference from a competitor, wow). I contacted Edelbrock and sure enough, their waterpump is specially CNC designed and here is information that you don't get from their web but should be there.
In an independant test the "Edelbrock pump generated 11.8 gal/min. more than the leading pump with similar design" and what I find equally important "all other pumps were unequal distribution one brand as much as 2gal./min per side, the Edelbrock was within 1/10 of a gal/min. per side (balanced cooling to both heads)." Plus the Edelblock is the only pump I found designed to run at high RPM. This all explains why my high speed temp dropped about 15-18+ degrees after I installed my new Edelbrock waterpump. (previously @75-80 MPH the temp would rise to 190, today it was @ 170-175 , I pulled off the highway and waited for the temp to rise to 190 (fan switched off) got back on the road and the temp dropped back down to 170 within a minute at 80MPH.


Thanks,
Mike 'monster'