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SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR BAD LUCK CLOIS......
I really think you have to focus on the root cause here. If the crankshaft is blue or discolored you may have oil starvation issues...if on the other hand the color of the crank is okay you may have had a rod bolt fail or stretch out allowing the bearing to spin and fail....look at the back if the bearing or if that's destroyed look at the inner diameter of the rod itself......if it appears that the bearing has ground away the rod then you have excessive clearence or rod bolt problems.....these things are 99% close inspection and common sense to determine the source of the failure....... Good luck and again sorry to hear about another dead FE.....on the other hand George is a great source of info and willing to help. JAY |
I've had extremely good luck with building road race Fe's for customers over the last twenty five years with very little trouble. There are some things you've really got to watch for though to stop problems before they happen.
Assuming you're running a good road race pan, always run an adequate amount of oil in it. This may take up to two quarts over the old "full" mark on the dipstick. That oil pump needs at least a 5/8" oil pickup tube on it. The stock 1/2" job doesn't cut it. Ford was not consistent in the oil holes in the crankshaft rod journals for adequate sizing. This has to be checked and drilled out to 1/4" if necessary. There's a bunch of cranks out there that have undersized oil holes in them. The individual oil feed holes from the main gallery that intersect with the grooves behind the cam bearings are notorious for being undersized in the non CJ blocks. Easily fixed again with a long 1/4" drill bit. These suggestions are in addition to the normal oil gallery modifications that are prerequisite when building up an Fe. |
helping you to escape your FE...
Hi Clois,
... if you are considering making that move back to the small block stroker, I might be interested in your complete FE engine/transmission parts package - nuts, bolts, brackets, throttle linkage and all. Send me an email about what you would consider doing for pricing, crate/shipping,etc. Thanks. Duane |
Clois, I agree with dscott, the FE when coupled with a HV pump will drain the pan and flood the valve covers with oil.
Make sure you have ample oil in the pan, check and possibly the drainback holes in the heads. The amount of oil fed to the rocker shafts can also be reduced by placing a std holley jet (about .080) in the oil feed hole. That will give you more oil where you need it and less where you don´t. I had my Shelby on the Autobahn going at a decent rate of speed, when suddenly a huge plume (I mean huge!) of blue smoke came out of the exhausts... The cause was a flooded valvecover and my PCV sucking in all the oil - got me pretty scared but no harm done. Easily fixed with the holley jet trick. Regarding the bearing size I see no difference to the 427 and those were used in NASCAR and won LeMans. Surely running at higher revs and longer that what you & I will ever do. Keep the revs below 6500 then it should live a long and happy life. What did you set your rev limit at? |
I really appreciate everyones suggestions. I haven't been home to get my engine over to my machinist but I should get it to him this week. In fact I am going to print this thread out and take it to him (I hope it doesn't pi$$ him off).
To answer some of the questions I have left unanswered: 1. I am running a MS 6AL w/ 6000 RPM Pill 2. I was running an Milodon 8 QT pan road racing pan. 3. Oil restrictors were used to limit the amt of oil going to the top end. 4. My total oil in my engine was about 10 1/2 QTS including oil cooler, lines and filter (KN). Thanks everyone Clois |
68gt500 There is a differents between the 427 SO bearings and the nascar bearings the crank was cut different and radiused. The rods had wider bearings and harder. The rods had better bolts. This is from some of the old FE motor builders the info came from. Rick Lake
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Sorry to hear about your bad luck,,been there done that,,it is frustrating,,
rest easy thougha good fe with a rev linit,,used like it is built to be used is bullet proof,,and the most satisfying motor in exsistance I think,something was just wrong,,I had a simular thing happen once with a 427,this sounds stupid,but I put a rod bearing in backwards,I assembled with plasti guage,when i took it apart to check,,I guess I put the little tab on the wrong side of the cap,tightening the cap crunched it against the rod cap,,making it seize,I caught hell for it too,it was a new service block and crank with all holman moody stuff,,I believe your problem is connected to your oil pressure,my motor cold rolls the guage past 100 and up to 5,,never gets below 50,, I hope your builder can figure it out,,have in there,,Tk |
spun or siezed..
Spun bearings are all about the clearances.. .002-.0025" will keep them from spinning.. Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
I should have read the post and not just the headline. It sounds like you had a siezure rather than a spun bearing, or more likely had a crud induced failure. 3 hours isn't enough to get a good break in before flogging.. Did you change the original fluid before the fun began??? :eek: Either way, I might have gone at least 500 miles before serious flogging began, more really. You will be able to see crud embedded in your bearings if you have sucked something up that dislodged from inadaquate cleaning of the crank, journals, block cavities, etc. or anywhere really. Hotrod or Car Craft did an article on bearing failurein the past few months. I will try to find your address and send you the issue. |
Ted, was curious on your comment about filling the pan, even beyond the stock dipstick marking.
What is a good test to ensure your pan is full w/o reading it from the stick. Thanks. |
@RICK Of course you´re right I must be getting old - but not slower or wiser ;-)
Clois: Careful disassembly and analysis will reveal the cause of the problem, I would make a point of being present while it is done! |
Thanks everyone I will have some news on the engine later this week when we dis-assemble the engine together. Kent and Steve are just as interested as me. I will be taking a days vacation to watch while everything is torn down and all the tolerances are re-checked.
Clois |
Clois,
Sorry to hear about the failure. Been there, done that - at 812 miles - distributor ate the cam, pull engine etc etc. No guarantee from Ford, so in that regard, you are luckier than I :LOL: :LOL: See it through and I hope you find the true cause. The results are worth it! When you hear the thing pass five or six thousand miles, the (wallet) pain will recede to the vanishing point behind you. **) **) :cool: :cool: :D :D Tom |
Rick,,the fes all had the same size bearings,,rods are the same width and lenght as well,,later 427's and scj's use the same rods,the bolts were beefier,studs in the better ones,,lemans had heavier rods yet,the difference is the oil galleys in the cranks were opened up and flowed more ,lots of oil pressure and lots of oil,,oem pump and 5 quarts wont work,but the bearings and rods will all interchange,,no diff in the width or design,most racers now use chevy rods,not so much because they are best,,but they are strong and light,,and off the shelf,,ie :cheaper,,oilflow oil flow oil flow,,it is all that,,,:} Tk
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misfit41 All 427 rod are not interchangable. The 427 nascar rods and crank are different the bearing are wider. At high rpm the bearings where seizing up, even with the oil improvements. I have a new set of Lemans rods c9zz-6200a in the boxes. I compared thwm to a set of nascars and they are wider. The crank was cut wider and fillets where added. I have all the part numbers. I thought the same. The big stroker FE motors are using chevy rods because it's cheaper to change pistons than buy custom rods from oliver,manley, carillio, and they have multi bearing combo's for there rods. Chevy bearings are wider than fords. The ford nascar crank # C9AZ-6303D. The rods # C7OE-6200A. The bearings are C9ax-6211-E or F. Rick Lake
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Clois,
When you install a solid cam in an fe that had a hydraulic cam, you must block off the oil passages that fed the lifters. if you don't, there will be little resistance to oil flow resulting in low pressure to the mains and rods which starves the bearings and will eat an engine in 2 to 3 hrs. my guess is your builder did not block off the oil passages. Good luck. Steven |
Hi Rick
I stand corrected on the bearing width issue,,I was wrong,,sort of,,but I would have bet other wise,I had assembled lots of motors years ago,,but they were already balanced and fitted at th emachine shop,,so I just checked with plasti guage and put together,, The c9az crank did have wider journalds,,this was never a production crank,,since the last 427 came out in 68,,just a racer part,, I am sure you knew,,but thanks for th enlightenment,, later guys,,I am heading for nashville,,,Tk |
Clois,
Any news for us on what happened to your eng? Steven |
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