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428 Oil Pan & Windage tray without gaskets
I am currently building my 428 and had a question. I have a stock cobra jet oil pan and have a Ford Motorsport windage tray. The windage tray came with 2 gaskets which are self explanatory. My question is this: Has anyone installed an oil pan and windage tray using only RTV and no gaskets at all? I know people have done this with success on other engines but I want to know if someone has done it specifically on an FE. I would love to hear the argument either way as to why or why not. Thanks, Todd
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Todd- not using gaskets on a "FE" v.s other engines does not apply. I've done both with equal success. We've even done this with our sprint car. As cheap as gaskets are, I use them as piece of assurance. Silicones have come a long way & are very good at sealing today if used properly. I just re-installed my tray & pan and used gaskets & silicone. The only problem has been with the timing cover seal on my "FE". Just plain stupid the way Ford built it with having to install in from the back & no pins to line the cover up with. Hopefully I have it centered this time ! Anyway, that's my two cents.
Kev |
I used gaskets AND silicone just about everywhere, I hear these FE's tend to leak at best.
There is ONE place I did NOT use any gaskets. Front and back of the intake manifold. I've done that several times, with and without gaskets. Silicone alone is the ticket for the intake ends. ...oil pan and windage,,, I wonder. |
You could do it, but why would you want to??? You'd need to beat the snot out of your pan to get it off, or get the windage tray off... Spend the $10 and get a gasket.
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I had the gaskets already. I just like the idea that RTV would conform perfectly to the shape and imperfections of the surfaces.
Update: I chickened out after reading about what oil leakers the FE's are known to be. It's kinda like the Harley-Davidson expression: "If it ain't leaking, you better check it 'cause it's empty!" |
Leak they will !
Donīt even dream of gluing the pan and tray to this engine. I did try it and it failed miserably. Used Indian Head gasket sealer with the cork gaskets and five years running nut even a smudgeon of grease !
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I am pleased to report zero leaks on my newly rebuilt FE.
I checked the fitment of every gasket carefully and took extra pains to keep them in alignment during the tightening process. Being a little "paranoid" of excess silicone entering the engine internals and potentially causing some kind of damage I used it sparingly. Just enough to create a "film" on the gasket surface, nothing more. Both sides of both pan/windage tray gaskets all the way around. |
Indian shielack and cork gaskets get my vote.
Tony |
Make sure that the pan rails are absolutly free of dirt and oil when you assemble. I found that laquer thinner works the best for cleaning things up. Also, make sure that your dipstick clears the windage tray before you seal everything up.
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I do not think I use two tubes of silicon a year in my shop when building older engines. I only use a touch in corners of the intake and oil pan and no place else on older engines. They were made for gaskets and it is best to stick with them. I do use spray copper coat on cork and paper gaskets to help seal the gasket but nothing else.
As pointed out earlier in this post getting silicone on the inside of an engine is a really bad thing. I have had to pull other folks engines down for lack of oil pressure and found silicon in the oil screen as well as engines that start to run hot after someone replaced the timing cover and water pump only to find the rad full of silicon. A little goes a LONG way. |
musclecargt500 Todd Do a couple of things first, Make sure the the windage tray CLEARS the rods when rotating the crank. If this is OK, I installed to location pins in the bottom of my block to center the pan. Best way to do this is put the pan and tray on the block, and center. drill 2 or 4 1/8" drill hole through all. Install press pins in the holes. Clean the surfaces real good and use a RTV(grey) to seal the pan. Very thin bead on all 3 surfaces. 1/16" bead. Let dry for 24 hours and you are good to go. Indian schalic is a ***** to remove, you need an air chisle, been there done that. Most motors in new cars use RTV to seal all low pressure areas like oil pans. If someone is finding RTV in a pickup tube, they where using WAY TO MUCH. I have 6 years on my pan and windage tray from canton without any leaks, how ever that rope seal in the rear main is a different story:rolleyes: . My car is like a dog and marks it territory:D Rick Lake
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Thanks for all the great advice. I have had it installed for a while now. I used a thin film of rtv on each side of the gaskets and carefully aligned all 4 pieces (gasket/tray/gasket/oil pan). I then snugged the bolts and allowed the rtv to set overnight. Then, I tightened them a little more. I believe it will seal very well. Everything so far has aligned without any problems. I used the crank spacer to center the timing cover as I have read here and in books. No dowel pins on the front cover sucks and is a bad design. I am still waiting for my Crane valvetrain to arrive. Should be son I hope. Todd
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