Help with 428 P.I. build...
 

I'm looking for any tips on building a 428 for my '67 GT500.
I would like to build a strong street motor.
My plans include using the stock dual-quad setup, Edelbrock alum heads and water pump. Not sure what else.
Questions:
1. Has anyone used the Comp Cams roller rocker shaft assembly available?
2. Who makes the best fitting headers for my application in your opinion?
3. Solid or hydraulic cam?
4. Stroke the motor or leave stock? Who makes a stroker kit?
5. Do you think an aluminum flywheel is worth the $500 they cost?
6. What compression ratio offers performance and is streetable ?

Again, I'm after a strong street performer. I am willing to spend $$ for a motor that will last. I don't need a 500+ HP 7000 RPM motor for a street car...got that already in a '65 GT350!

I'm new to CC and this is my first FE build so I thought I would ask for a little help! Thanks.

Mike C

You'll get past that 500HP pretty easy with a modern FE - but by 6000 RPM or less. I sell Scat rotating kits, as does Keith, and George, and others...

Your bottom end will be plenty strong at that power level with any cast crank - whether stock, or the Scat 4.125 or 4.250 strokers - I personally like big motors (hint..). I would recommend using a set of new H beam rods 'cuz the old stuff is "old". I use Diamond pistons in my FE stuff - - good parts, wide selection, fast service. I'd target compression between 9.8 and 10.2. Some port work on the Ed heads is near mandatory - they're pretty tame (I'm being nice) as delivered. The Comp valvetrain is a Dove setup - - decent parts - - I'd also take a look at the Erson deal. You'll need one of these rocker setups to run a solid cam - I'd like a solid in that kind of car.

For the Mustang/Shelby header questions you really need to visit the FE forum guys at : http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/

I'm sure a bunch of other folks will chime in shortly...

Lotsa experience on headers there...you can tell by the battered knuckles..

Barry R.
Survival Motorsports

428 Build
 

Thanks for the input. I checked the FE fourm and there is a good bit of info out there.
So would you recommend working the heads out of the box? I was under the impression that they were pretty good out of the box.
Mike C.

The heads are OK as delivered - - for a daily driver type application they'd be fine. They'd be about equal to a factory MR head - - but they are new - - and they are aluminum. But there is also a lot to be gained with some fairly modest work.

If you find something on the headers. Please pass it along.
Scott

Headers
 

I have not found much opinion on headers out there. I am not real good at sitting and surfing for info. I did find a good looking set at:
http://www.jbaheaders.com/65-70mustangnew.asp
I did not price these yet. It did mention shock tower bracing that could be a problem. With all of those Eleanor builders out there, I would think that someone knows about header options.
Mike

I have a little pricing on headers but would like to know if someone has used either brand.
JBA Header for '67 Mustang 428 $1189.00 (coated) from Summit
Hooker Super-Comp $589.00 (coated) from Summit
Like to hear reviews on both of these....
Mike

You could just order a set of the stage2 edelbrocks from Kieth Craft. They start with the bare castings and do all the machine work and porting on a CNC machine so it's nice and consistant.

If your chasing CNC ported heads we can help too - but my impression was that this was not a max effort/max power type of build, and the CNC stuff is kinda spendy.

I've used Hookers on my Torino ('69 shock tower car). They do fit - but you will find yourself test fitting and tweaking (BTW - - tweaking is done with a hammer...) - they might fit Mustangs a bit better.

re: Headers
 

FPA tri-y headers, www.fordpowertrain.com, are the way to go for Mustangs. Similar to JBAs but less expensive and a better design (the tubes are paired differently).

I've used Hookers on numerous FE powered mustangs including a 67 GT500. I can't attest to the other makes since Hooker is all I've ever used but they do fit, it's sometimes a chore to get them lined up just before the engine settles into the mount location and getting to all the bolts can be tough but it's doable. I just installed a set in my 68 with a 427 tunnel port and these are hitting the shock towers on both sides. I haven't experienced this problem before but I think it's the exhaust port configuration on the tunnel port heads that's creating the problem. I'm hoping after I have it running they will kinda seat themselves so I don't have to take them back off and hammer-tweak them.

All right I have to ask. What is the dif between a header and an exhaust manifold? What could be the difference between old headers and new header design? Why a long pipe header and a shorty (just fit?). Thanks, Scott

Headers??????????
 

I have a set of Hooker Super Comp 2 1/8 on my 67 Mustang on a 427 stroker motor. Coated at Jet hot got just under a grand in them. Fit tight but you wont need the big ones 1 3/4 or 2 inch should be fine. the smaller tube on lower performance engines give more low end power. Before you coat them cut about a 1/4 to 3/8 inch from the flange between the tubes Installation will be eased. I lowered my uppercontrol arms so the car sit low. I have 28 inch tires on the front!!! Super comps set 3 inches below my Cobra t -pan I have 2 1/2 ground clearance. Smaller dia. tubes my have more ground clearance? The leading edge of my front bumper is 19 1/2 form floor for your comparisons. Add to my 2 1/2 clearance for every inch your bumper sit higher than mine for your clearance. I wouldn't change a thing.the car handles perfect. Steers left and right in a four wheel drift. If a Cobra handles that good I got to get one! Oh weld some skid plates on the lowest parts of the tubes If you don't have 4 inches clearance an keep good shocks on it! Do a good port job on Edelbrock heads,.no regrets heh! Also have a custom cam cut for your car it cost no more. Bullet cams ask for John Partrige Go get em jimmymac

If you reuse the stock intake manifold with CNC'd heads, you will definitely need to have the manifold ported or you won't get your money's worth from the heads.

For the cam, Crane makes a set of drop-in hydraulic roller lifters. I would use those with a good HR cam.

I would only stroke it if the crank needs replacing.

Given how heavy the crank is anyway, I'm not sure the aluminum flywheel is worth it, especially in a heavy car.

With aluminum heads, 10.0:1 is a safe CR.

Keep it to 6,000 RPM max for a durable street engine.

I just finished a similar 428 build for my '70 Cougar, exception being single four barrel instead of your dual quad setup. I've got a set of Edelbrock heads, with bowl and valve work done by Keith Craft, along with some better valve springs. I'm running an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold. For a carb I've got a Stage 2 Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb from Jet Performance. I'm running Performance Distributors distributor. I had Cam Research do a custom ground hydraulic flat tappet cam: Lift Int. .540 Exh. .565; Adv. Duration Int. 291 degrees Exh. 295 degrees; Duration@.050" Int. 226 degrees Exh. 234 degrees; Lobe seperation 109 degrees. I'm running about 10.25:1 compression, an Edelbrock water pump, and Hooker Super Comp headers (1 3/4 primaries). Behind the engine I'm running a C6 with a Neal Chance 9.5" converter, about 3200 rpm stall. I've got 3.50 gears, L60-15 Mickey Thompson tires, and my Cougar is a bit heavier than your Mustang. With this combo I can downshift into second getting on the freeway and lay rubber with those big Mickey Thompsons. It's perfectly streetable, runs dead-on 180 degrees all the time, never pings on 91 octane, idles at about 950 rpm, and has respectable fuel mileage (~10 mpg if you keep your foot out of it). The engine I built is pretty mild compared with some people's engines, and its still a lot of fun, and I'm sure it will last plenty long if I treat it good. As long as you don't try to turn your 428 into a high revving screamer, which it was never meant to be, I think you'll have one of the best and funnest street engines ever made.

Scott, an exhaust manifold is made of cast iron, bolts to the head, and the exhaust pipe is fastened to it. They come on standard vehicles. A header is a set of individual tubes that bolt in place of the exhaust manifold and end up in a "collector" which the tubes are welded to. This also takes place of part of the exhaust pipe; you have to have a muffler shop bend new exhaust pipe(s) to fit between the header(s) and muffler.
Along came the catalytic converter, which we mustn't mess with. It's usually somewhere between the exhaust manifold and muffler. Shorty headers are just that...short tube headers that just take the place of the exhaust manifold, and the rest of the standard system hooks up to them, and the catalytic converter is still functional. Some performance vehicles come from the factory with shorty headers for more power.
Clear as mud? :)

Dan

Help with build....
 

I wanted to thank you guys for the help, this is all good info for my build.
I'm taking in all of the info and will report back on my build.
Hope to be up and running this March or April with a new motor.
Thanks,
Mike