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Very true Barry...Two nails into the rear main. Now, just think about todays technology try and imagine anyone using nails to hold in a rear main. The FE engine is part of the charisma of the car and a leak or two is going to happen.
Clois |
Dynobyte,
Had you ever been involved with an FE before you bought yours? If not, Did your engine builder tell you about the infamous FE oil leak? Kieth & any other engine builders on this site, When someone orders an FE from you do you tell them about the infamous oil leak problem or any other known problem with any other engine you sell? Not trying to get on engine builders here. Maybe this will help someone else to know what questions to ask when purchasing anything "not just engines" for their projects. When building cars you need to invistigate everything "good and bad" about everything you are putting in your car. Terry |
During assembly, the rear main just takes more attention. I have removed the rear main more than once when I didn't feel confident it was sealed correctly. I use grease on the rubber inserts and nails, if they don't go in smooth, I start over.
Use the R.A.C.E. set from fel-pro. |
Quote:
--Mike |
Engine discussions
I try to talk about all of the pros and cons to an engine build. As I said earlier when it comes to FE engines the rear main seal is always discussed. We do not have many that leak but every now and then we do. We have spend more time on oil leaks and rear main leaks in the last couple of years than we have making HP. What I mean by that is that the HP is not a issue on these engines and the oil leaks are. We have worked with all sorts of products and methods to try and come up with a full proof method but we still have not got one. If I put 100 engines on the dyno built the same way they will all make the HP they should but we will have a few that will leak. This is what I mean by spending more time working on oil leaks. With the CNC equipement we use on the heads and blocks along with our years of racing FE engines the power is a non issue but that damn rear main seal is still lerking waiting to leak. It really sucks that is for sure. Keith
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Keith,
Is it possible that the increase in "leaks" is related to the fact that we are getting to the bottom of the barrel so to speak on suitable FE cores? Are the newer production blocks exhibiting as much leaking? |
The FE oil leak factor is a big deal to me. My 36 x 50 garage is completely finished, as good as most houses, with it's own furnace. I have a couple family holiday parties in it every year. The last thing I want is oil drips all over my floor. I absolutely hate a car that leaks....
My Grandfathers Model T sitting in Dad's garage doesn't leak a drop, so you have to admit there are no excuses for such a poor design. It seems to me that anything can be redesigned to work propperly, given enough time and money. Since collectively we have had over fifty years to fix it, I guess it's a money issue. I know in industrial pump seals there are teflon seal materials that can be packed tighter without increasing friction. They work well. Anything like this available for engines? When I hear Barry and Keith say FE leaks are impossible to garantee, along with all the water leaks, cam failures, dizzy gears, I read about on this forum, I'm just about to rule the FE out. Other than originallity, what will a FE do for you that you cannot do better, for less $$$, with other Ford engines? |
Just my .02c .Are any of you guys running a pcv valve connected to a good vacuum source? With all the air inside moving around it has to come out somewhere!
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FE rear mains are a little different .Originally they had a two half circle rear seals made with rope material. The rear bearing cap to block seal has two grooves one on either side also originally made from rope material. Fel-Pro makes a rear main seal kit that has two neoprene seal half circle crank seals and two neoprene wedges to seal the cap off to the block . These seals are a lot easierand almost fool proof to install . The wedges are installed by slipping them in to place ( making sure the wedges reach the bottom of the groove touching the block ) then a steel pin resembling a nail is inserted into the neopreen wedges V groove expanding it to fill the cap and block cavity. I'v seen a lot of the usual rope material not reach the bottom of the groove or be cut short around the crank so that when the crank turned a gap appeared and you have a leak. I use the Fel-Pro kit since 69.
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I think I have narrowed the leak....
Distributor...and the oil pressure sending unit... More to follow...thanks for all the help. :-) |
A lot of leaks will look like the rear main seal until you start investigating them. Rear corners of the intake, and rear valve cover gasket are good ones to check first.
Then jump to the front of the engine and look at the valve cover corner gaskets (I mean the head to intake interface), intake mainfold to engine block at the corners where all meet the head, front oil plug by the filter adapter, the factory dipstick tube (in use or not and is it pluged) the filter adapter, timing chain cover, and balancer seal. All of these are high enough up on the block to run down to the oil pan seal. WHen there it runs to the back of the motor, following the oil pan and make it look like a rear main seal leak. It take several of them to get it to look this way or one really bad one. Black light it and really find out where they are coming from. Although the rear main seal is the "Sailor Proff" it does work most of the time. |
I had a persistant leak from my 351W. Small, but persistant. Very frustrating. I had the car at a shop for some tuning. He had a little machine that injects smoke into the engine. Where the smoke comes out is the same place oil comes out. Took all of 10 minutes to set up the machine and discover a small leak at the fuel pump block off plate.
Find a shop that has one of these machines and pay the few dollars for the test. Saved a lot of frustration and trial and error leak "fixing". |
Well, after Dennis at Valley Ford Specialist took a look, he says oil is blowing out the dip stick, the seal of the manifold, the breather (and I have a PCV), and between the head and block. He thinks the rings never did set, and that the pressure in the crank case is causing all sorts of problems.
He is going to have to pull the motor and basically rebuild it correctly. The drama continues. :rolleyes: |
I have a 351 with split 2 piece rear seal and wonder if there is oil pressure to it? cause mine leaks a 2 dollar size puddle after running only.if its just sitting it doesnt leak. its leaking more since i vented the valve covers. I hate leaks but just got it running and don't want to remove the engine ever. maybe i'll see if it will just wear in.
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On a windsor, every bit of leaking oil finds it's way to the block off plate. It always looks like a rear main seal, even though it is not.
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How much pressure??
Dinobyte Before this motor is pulled apart, How much pressure is in the motor?? I have only a PVC valve on my motor, no breathers, and turn 6k rpm without blowing oil out any seal. The rope seal for the crank leaks about the size of a quarter after a hard run. If you ran a mobil 1 oil for breakin in I could see a problem. If the cylinder walls have the wrong honing stone used with the wrong grit number maybe but a leak down test should be done first both wet and dry. It is possible you have the wrong PVC valve for the motor also. One doesn't fit all or it could have been boxed wrong. %/ You need to do the basics done before a motor rebuild. A leak down may tell you if the rings are not installed right with the end gaps lined up or the wrong end clearance. Start at the top of this list before a motor pull. Rick L
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Rick L - Which PCV do you reccomend for a windsor? Anything in particular. I've been thinking about this myself but wasn't sure. Thanks in advance!
Cheers, |
where does the leak come from if not the main seal when oil is found at the block off plate ?
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Nevermind...no message.
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Quote:
Oil travles down along the sides, and hits the oil pan rail. Because of the angle of the engine, it follows the pan rail all the way to the back. Then down to the bottom of the arc. As it drips, the wind blows it onto the block off plate. Almost everything appears to be a rear main leak. Use that smoke machine and you might be surprised. I know I was. |
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