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-   -   427 FE and TKO 600 mating Question (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-talk/95556-427-fe-tko-600-mating-question.html)

elmariachi 03-16-2009 05:41 PM
427 FE and TKO 600 mating Question
 
Can't get the tranmission shaft far enough up into the engine to bolt them together:

- Freshly rebuilt Original engine and forged crank
- Lakewood 15210 FE bellhousing
- TKO 600 with short shaft and short retainer
- New pilot bushing
- Lakewood is 100% dialed in to within .005" and bolted down
- McLeod clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing properly installed with Ford clutch arm.

Pilot bushing was test fit on input shaft. Bellhousing was test fit to tranny on bench. We have the old TKO long shaft as the alignment tool and we can get it to slide in smoothly and bottom out. When we run it all the way in and then measure the perpendicular at the face of the bellhousing mating surface, its 6.5" on the dot. When we square up the tip of our installed short shaft vs. the mounting face on the tranny, its 6.5" on the dot as well. However, when we slide them together, it bottoms out with 1/8"-1/4" to go. We put some marker paint on the tip and confirmed we are all the way into the clutch and pilot bushing.

Thoughts/advice/input?

Thanks.

mikeforte 03-16-2009 05:50 PM
Hi,
So the TKO mates all the way up to the large diameter of the bearing retainer? My experience is the Lakewood has the red paint that interfers with the bearing retainer. A half round file to knock the paint off with will make the TKO fit all the way into the bellhousing. If that doesn't work I make 1/8" spacers to go between the TKO & Lakewood bellhousing.
I hope this helps. Email me if you have other questions.

elmariachi 03-16-2009 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeforte (Post 930732)
Hi,
So the TKO mates all the way up to the large diameter of the bearing retainer? My experience is the Lakewood has the red paint that interfers with the bearing retainer. A half round file to knock the paint off with will make the TKO fit all the way into the bellhousing. If that doesn't work I make 1/8" spacers to go between the TKO & Lakewood bellhousing.
I hope this helps. Email me if you have other questions.
Hi Mike, yes the shoulder on the bearing retainer goes on up into the bellhousing bell the way except for about 1/8", then hits a dead stop. We had already fit the bellhousing to the transmission on the bench and it slid on and off fine so it shouldn't be that. It really appears that the input shaft is bottoming out in the crank, but we have measured this with some excellent measuring tools 4 times and its 6.5" on boththe tranny input and on the old shaft when its fully buried out to teh bellhousing face. :confused:

mikeforte 03-16-2009 06:08 PM
Hi,
Install 4 flat washers about .125" thick between the bellhousing and the main case and see if that spacer fixes the binding of your TKO.

elmariachi 03-16-2009 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeforte (Post 930745)
Hi,
Install 4 flat washers about .125" thick between the bellhousing and the main case and see if that spacer fixes the binding of your TKO.
Okay, we just had a buddy roll in with better grade measuring equipment and the seated long shaft out to the face of the BB is 6 7/16" and the distance from the face of the TKO out to the short shaft tip is 6 9/16", so we in fact have 1/8" too much shaft. The washer/spacer idea is quick I suppose, but would we not be better off just to pull the input and have it milled down?

Thanks.

mikeforte 03-16-2009 07:03 PM
Hi,
You could grind the input to correct the interference. Do you have anaerobic sealer?

elmariachi 03-16-2009 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeforte (Post 930771)
Hi,
You could grind the input to correct the interference. Do you have anaerobic sealer?
Yes I have the sealer from when we swapped shafts a month ago. I have pulled the short shaft this evening and am just going to run it over to the machinist and have 3/16ths milled off and be done with it. If he weren't 10 minutes away and dying to see me finish this, I would have already just ground it down.

I am still curious where the tolerances are off, but I know the pilot bushing is correctly seated and the bellhousing is firmly bolted on, so either Tremec or Lakewood got it wrong somewhere. Thanks for the input Mike.

mikeforte 03-17-2009 04:00 AM
Hi Mike,
I've seen this many times with the BB Ford. I've made a spacer for years just to fix this. Just a silly 1/8" makes a difference.

elmariachi 03-17-2009 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeforte (Post 930872)
Hi Mike,
I've seen this many times with the BB Ford. I've made a spacer for years just to fix this. Just a silly 1/8" makes a difference.
I gather from searching other threads that I am not the only one who has run into this. I'm off to the machine shop.

SSSammy 03-17-2009 07:04 AM
Check one more time ...
 
Mike, just a precautionary note .. you will need about .100" or more clearance between the 26 tooth spline and the pilot bushing when it is all bolted up. I'd want to double check and make sure it is in fact the tip end of the shaft that is bottoming out on the crank and not the shoulder of the spline bottoming out on the pilot bushing.

Fyi, I'm using the McLeod spacer:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...7&autoview=sku

Sam

elmariachi 03-17-2009 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSSammy (Post 930918)
I'd want to double check and make sure it is in fact the tip end of the shaft that is bottoming out on the crank and not the shoulder of the spline bottoming out on the pilot bushing.Sam
Yes, that's an excellent point that dawned on us even later last night. So we played around with some marker paint to confirm that it was the input tip and not the spline shoulder. We had enough room to take 3/16ths off of the tip and still have room between the shoulder and the pilot bushing. Once we reinstalled the modified shaft today, she mated up just perfectly.

Keithc8 03-19-2009 10:46 PM
We have seen people have as little as a .030 or .060 gap here and not really know it and pull up the transmssion taking out the end play and then taking the thrust bearing out of the engine. I always recommend checking end play on the engine after all of this is done so that you do not have anything in a bind. Good luck, Keith

lovehamr 03-21-2009 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithc8 (Post 931877)
We have seen people have as little as a .030 or .060 gap here and not really know it and pull up the transmssion taking out the end play and then taking the thrust bearing out of the engine. I always recommend checking end play on the engine after all of this is done so that you do not have anything in a bind. Good luck, Keith
Did that with a 351 and top loader. Didn't know about it until I opened up the Oberg and it was loaded with metal..........Doh!:mad:

RICK LAKE 03-22-2009 04:48 AM
Short notes in Lakewood installation
 
elmariachi There is a note about using GM trans with 26 spline input in FE motors. You have to remove .300" for the trans to bolt up to the bellhousing flush. If not will damage the thrust bearing in the motor. I had mine machined off because of the heat that cutting the input shaft would get. Sometimes you have to tap the clutch because the disc is not centered and binds when installing the trans. Rick L Ps gald you didn't pull the trans flush to the bellhousing with the 4 bolts. Have seen this happen more than once.:(

mikeforte 03-22-2009 06:55 AM
Hi,
I make a .125" aluminum spacer plate that fits between the bellhousing and the TKO. It can be slotted so it can slip it in with the TKO installed. No transmission removal needed.... hummm

elmariachi 03-23-2009 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE (Post 932496)
elmariachi There is a note about using GM trans with 26 spline input in FE motors. You have to remove .300" for the trans to bolt up to the bellhousing flush. If not will damage the thrust bearing in the motor. I had mine machined off because of the heat that cutting the input shaft would get. Sometimes you have to tap the clutch because the disc is not centered and binds when installing the trans. Rick L Ps gald you didn't pull the trans flush to the bellhousing with the 4 bolts. Have seen this happen more than once.:(
Thanks Rick. I had read through most of the posts and couldn't find anything here on CC that said 100% conclusively it HAD to be done. Nonetheless, mine needed it so we machined 3/16ths off of the tip of the shaft and it slid in and bottom out on the first stab.

I specifically recalled your thread where you said to NOT pull them together with the mounting bolts, and we didn't. She's all mated up now and in the car, waiting only on a distributor part to arrive via FedEx today.

RICK LAKE 03-23-2009 09:03 AM
Gald it's together
 
elmariachi Gald it went together for you. Rick


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