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-   -   A Kirkham, only smaller... (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/kirkham-motorsports/102300-kirkham-only-smaller.html)

RedBarchetta 02-11-2010 08:03 AM
For me personally, this build has me as captivated as the Kirkham billet car did. :cool:

I'm impressed with the master model making skills of others. I elevated my abilities to adding plug wires and steel braid plumbing to Revell models and using actual automotive paint to the exteriors (color sanding, polishing and all). Discovered it was MUCH EASIER to do all this on the real thing. :LOL:

-Dean

bmwmech1 02-11-2010 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider701 (Post 1027761)
You need to talk the Kirkham boys into milling you a tiny body out of billet
You may have hit on an avenue worth pursuing... although milling a body would not be my first choice, I might contact them about CNC milling me a scale wood buck... then I could use that to hammer out a metal body(s). I don't know that aluminum would be my first choice, since TIG'ing that thin of aluminum might be dicey, but a copper body could be done with relative ease and soldered together, then filed and finished as per usual. This is something worth looking into... I must say thanks for the idea! I'll keep everybody posted...:):):)

Garey

bmwmech1 02-11-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBarchetta (Post 1027789)
For me personally, this build has me as captivated as the Kirkham billet car did. :cool:

I'm impressed with the master model making skills of others. I elevated my abilities to adding plug wires and steel braid plumbing to Revell models and using actual automotive paint to the exteriors (color sanding, polishing and all). Discovered it was MUCH EASIER to do all this on the real thing. :LOL:

-Dean
Thanks for your kind words, Dean. I have found the same to be true, although there seems to be a challenge for me mentally to see if I can duplicate 1:1 things in a smaller scale. Don't know why and I'm sure most people find it strange that I still "build models", but most don't have a clue the amount of time that goes into one. Maybe if they did, they might think I'm even more strange to spend that kind of time and energy on a model... Oh well, I enjoy it, my wife doesn't hate it and most of my friends just accept it... and if you guys like watching the build progress, then I'm happy to share that with you...

Garey

slider701 02-11-2010 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwmech1 (Post 1027938)
You may have hit on an avenue worth pursuing... although milling a body would not be my first choice, I might contact them about CNC milling me a scale wood buck... then I could use that to hammer out a metal body(s). I don't know that aluminum would be my first choice, since TIG'ing that thin of aluminum might be dicey, but a copper body could be done with relative ease and soldered together, then filed and finished as per usual. This is something worth looking into... I must say thanks for the idea! I'll keep everybody posted...:):):)

Garey
The other thing you could do, if you have a plastic model that is the correct size, is make a plastic or silicone mold/splash of that body. This will then serve as a mold for you to pour an epoxy or similar hard plastic to make a hard buck to use.

Take a look at the "Plastic Casting > Urethane" video in the following link:

http://www.acucast.com/multimedia/

I have never used these guys in the link above but they have a good video of how a rapid prototype part is made, from the SLA process of taking a CAD file and making an initial part through how they can make functional plastic parts for prototypes at a fraction of the cost of an injection mold tool.

I have used these guys in the link below and the cost is extremely reasonable, just no fancy videos on their web site.

http://theprototyper.com/

bmwmech1 02-11-2010 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider701 (Post 1027952)
The other thing you could do, if you have a plastic model that is the correct size, is make a plastic or silicone mold/splash of that body. This will then serve as a mold for you to pour an epoxy or similar hard plastic to make a hard buck to use.

Take a look at the "Plastic Casting > Urethane" video in the following link:

http://www.acucast.com/multimedia/

I have never used these guys in the link above but they have a good video of how a rapid prototype part is made, from the SLA process of taking a CAD file and making an initial part through how they can make functional plastic parts for prototypes at a fraction of the cost of an injection mold tool.

I have used these guys in the link below and the cost is extremely reasonable, just no fancy videos on their web site.

http://theprototyper.com/
I have and will have to do some mold making/casting for this project, but I don't know if it will work for the body buck, although it's a great suggestion... when you're doing any type of hand/hammer forming in this size/scale, most of your shaping is accomplished through annealing the metal, to soften it and then hammering it to shape. Having the wood buck serves both purposes, since it is hard enough to stand up to the repeated hammering and also it won't melt during the annealing, if you have to do it on the form. That's why I thought a wooden buck would be so functional. I have a backup plan of laying up the body in fiberglass, but that's just not as true to the 1:1 as I'd like to go, given the option of both... thanks for the 2 links, I may end up using the second one for some stuff on this build even!


Garey

bmwmech1 02-11-2010 09:21 PM
So I got alot of the rear suspension tubes knocked out tonight... still lots left to do, but it's starting to look like an AC frame at last! I milled pockets in the main tubes to catch the front uprights, milled slight holes in the rear crossmember for the rear uprights and milled slots in the tubes to catch the gusset plate. All of that made lining everything up a lot simpler and stronger. Still plenty of brackets to add, but it's getting closer to being done... enjoy!

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3150.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3151.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3152.jpg

I'll post another update over the weekend... maybe I can get the rear suspension brackets done... we'll see. :LOL::LOL::LOL:Thanks for watching!

Garey

thudmaster 02-11-2010 09:41 PM
This is great to watch your car come together. I know it is a bit off but are you planning to polish the body, brush it or paint it? :)

bmwmech1 02-12-2010 05:24 AM
Thanks Ed, the build has been well received here, so it's a pleasure to share it with everyone. And what better critics than a bunch of Cobra owners, right? Gotta make sure it's right... Anyways, the body is still up in the air. I had originally thought and planned to shape a buck from EPS foam and lay 'glass over it for the body, but I am now going to pursue opening a conversation with the Kirkhams to see if they can do a scale CNC wood buck for me to hand hammer a metal skin over. (If Tom or David reads this, feel free to PM me...) That would open the door to a truly accurate model, but I,m not sure about TIG'ing aluminum that's thin enough to be correct in scale, so it may have to be done in copper. (Again, if the Kirkhams read this, they would have a better insight into the possibility of using aluminum.) It is, as you've said, a bit down the line, but I'm still thinking about it!:):):)

Thanks for watching,

Garey

bmwmech1 02-14-2010 09:34 PM
I hope the open house weekend was a smash, wish I could have flown out for it... maybe next year I will. Thought I'd post up some pics for all of you weary eyed travelers who did get to go...Well, my goal was to get the chassis completed this weekend and I'm 8 brackets and 8-10 tabs shy of being there. It's really starting to look the part, now. Some of the stuff I had to fab and solder was a real treat... the tension arm mounts and the upper differential mounting brackets were a real pain, but worth the aggravation! I should be able to get the rest of the stuff fabbed and on the frame by tomorrow night, so I'll post another set of pics then. I have quite a few hours of solder joint clean up to do, once the chassis is complete, then it's onto the birdcage... enjoy!

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3153.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3154.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3155.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3156.jpg

Thanks for watching!!!:):):)

Garey

SFcobra65 02-15-2010 03:36 AM
Garey...
Thanks alot for sharing this amazing build.I feel like i am watching someone build a Real one back in the day...You are a true artist..

Frank

bmwmech1 02-15-2010 09:46 PM
So, I got all the brackets done, except the emergency brake bracket and 2 little tabs for the brake lines at the rear. Got the rest done, so I'm declaring the chassis finished! Whew!!! Now for some cleanup and then its time to plan the next stage of the build. Also, I couldn't resist bending up a rollbar hoop and bolting it to the chassis, since I got the inboard rollbar bracket done. Oh, and it is sitting a 15 degrees rearward lean angle and it bolts in, just like the real deal, just in case you guys were wondering just how accurate I am, Lol!:D:D:D Enjoy...

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3157.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3158.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3160.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3161.jpg

Thanks for following,

Garey

SFcobra65 02-16-2010 05:42 AM
I just cant say it enough.... WOW!!! the accuracy in your build is truly a work of art... Thank-you so much for sharing it..

Frank

bmwmech1 02-16-2010 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFcobra65 (Post 1029211)
I just cant say it enough.... WOW!!! the accuracy in your build is truly a work of art... Thank-you so much for sharing it..

Frank
Thanks Frank, it's fun to get some stuff completed and then post the pictures for everyone to enjoy. I'm excited to start the birdcage assembly, it should be somewhat easier than all of the frame brackets and mounts. It's funny how reaching a waypoint in the assembly motivates me to start the next challenge. Plus, I'm constantly thinking about potential pitfalls and ways around them when I'm not actually building, so it really is almost non-stop engineering in my head, Lol! I'm still trying to sort out the best way to do the engine/transmission, but that's a ways off yet. Next up, after the birdcage, will be the suspension, which will be daunting, since I am trying to duplicate the Kirkhams milled aluminum control arms/uprights and Penske coilovers.

Thanks for the kind words,

Garey

A98Coupe 02-19-2010 03:51 PM
Garey,

Hate to tell you, but your inner roll bar mounting is incorrect. The mounting bracket is much higher than the outboard position. I can attach some pics from my car if it would help?

bmwmech1 02-20-2010 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A98Coupe (Post 1030287)
Garey,

Hate to tell you, but your inner roll bar mounting is incorrect. The mounting bracket is much higher than the outboard position. I can attach some pics from my car if it would help?
I appreciate the input, but, actually, it's the other way around. The inner is mounted to the rearmost main crosstube and the outer is much higher and mounted to the birdcage framework. There are quite a few pictures in the Kirkham galleries where this can be verified, as well. The rollbar in the picture was just a quickie one I bent up and drilled and tapped to attach for the picture. That's why both downtubes are the same length, which may be what threw you off. If you look closely, there is no outer mount, the end of the tube is just kind of hanging there. The final version one will be the correct style. I have a set of prints I'm working from and have been very discerning about getting it as right as possible. Tough to put pictures up here and not have it be "right", Lol! In the next group of pictures, maybe tonight or tomorrow, I have the rollbar mounts completed, along with most of the rear birdcage structure, so check back to see it more completed...:):):)

Nice Coupe, by the way... love those bodies!

Thanks,

Garey

am9648 02-20-2010 02:48 PM
A Kirkham only smaller
 
If you need an engine, may want this guy to build one for you.

www.moyermade.com/chevyV8. html

A98Coupe 02-20-2010 03:26 PM
Garey,
Sorry, had a little too much wine last night and got my rollbar mounts the wrong way round. I have to say you have my utmost respect for paying meticulous attention to detail - to the point of being able to hold your own against a Kirkham owner!
Keep up the good work.
Stuart

bmwmech1 02-20-2010 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by am9648 (Post 1030553)
If you need an engine, may want this guy to build one for you.

www.moyermade.com/chevyV8. html
Yeah, I've seen his work before... incredible stuff! I remember the flathead he did in that RC T bucket. For this build, I think I'll stick to the static display design... it scares me to think of all my work wrecked by some half-lit mouse, who stole the keys to my project and went joy-riding with his girl, Lol!:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Thanks for the link,

Garey

bmwmech1 02-20-2010 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A98Coupe (Post 1030557)
Garey,
Sorry, had a little too much wine last night and got my rollbar mounts the wrong way round. I have to say you have my utmost respect for paying meticulous attention to detail - to the point of being able to hold your own against a Kirkham owner!
Keep up the good work.
Stuart
Thanks Stuart,
I was a little tentative in my reply to your post, but I was also pretty confident that the downtubes had thrown you off. Didn't realize there was a little vino in the mix as well, but hey, I feel better about it now, Lol! Thanks for the kind words, also. I hope to not disappoint as the build continues... I have set the bar quite high!

Garey

bmwmech1 02-21-2010 05:51 PM
It was a little while between posts, this week... had a touch of a cold, I was fighting with. Got a lot done today, though. The wife went to IKEA with the baby, so it was a nice, relaxing, productive day, Lol! I was able to get all of the square, support tubing in the rear finished, got the floor/seat supports done, the main hoop and supports done and the lower side tubes done. The lower side tubes still need to be tucked up against the bottom of the main hoop a little more and the rollbar hoop is a temporary one. The real one still has to be bent up and the rear support tied into the rear structure, but that's another day. The solder joints are not dressed, yet, but the frame is getting closer... Enjoy the pics, everybody!

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3162.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3163.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3164.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3165.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3166.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3167.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/100_3168.jpg

Thanks for watching!!!:):):)

Garey


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