Boy have times changed . I remember sitting outside High school ( early 1960`s) in the fall one afternoon with a friend and we got our rifles out of our car`s trunk ( we were going squirrel hunting ) and were showing them to each other . No one even looked twice at us .
I hate to think what would happen if we did that today !

The little asshole should be in reform school rather than detention. Good God he could have scooped out someone's eye with the spoon on that thing. :rolleyes:

At what age do you really think these kids can comprehend the Act of bringing a WEAPON yet alone the punishment 6yrs ....Not...... get real!!!

Good point, I think they oughta send mom to reform skool instead. Maybe dad too, after all according to the website he's 'involved' with the boy. At least from time to time.

Bobcat, when my dad was a kid he ran a trap line on the way to school and back and used to store his shotgun (or .22 depending on the season) in the coat closet during the day.

I just heard on Fox News that the Lil' Thug was/is a member of Acorn AND SEIU and the shive was being used in influence votes in the class elections.

QUOTE: SPF2245-I agree the punishment is a little steep, however, I'm going on the side of stop blaming the schools and blame the parents/kids. Let's not forget, he was not supposed to bring a knife to school (it clearly IS/HAS a blade) so rather then letting it go...let's ask for a punishment of 5 days and call it even.

I agree 100%....He DOES need to learn his lesson, and so do the parents.:)

"The American Psychological Association has argued that strict zero-tolerance rules hurt student achievement and can even make schools less safe." "When that common sense is missing, it sends a message of inconsistency to students, which actually creates a less safe environment," said Kenneth S. Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services, "People have to understand that assessing on a case-by-case basis doesn't automatically equate to being soft or unsafe."

And just for the record:

"State Democratic Rep. Terry Schooley sponsored a bill that gave districts more flexibility on punishments, but the law applies to expulsions, not suspensions. She was moved to act after a fifth-grader in same school district was expelled last year for bringing a birthday cake and a serrated knife to cut it with; the expulsion was overturned."

Wow, not everyone is treated equally, I'm sure glad she didn't trip and stab the birthday girl. :LOL:



Thank goodness I was starting to think I was the only sane one here...thanks to Zoloft.:LOL:

How much you want to bet that Maria gets less time for carelessly wielding a multi-ton SUV than what the cub scout gets. Some people need to get a perspective here.

Name me any situation where "Zero-tolerance" works as intended.

The American Pyschological Assn.? You're kidding, right? The same morons who put kids on anti-depressents and show up as expert witnesses to assplain how Little Johnny didn't mean to kill his teacher cuz the poor little basturd had too many Twinkies and had to grow up in a trailer park.

And Trump's association is a trade association for cops for hire that provide security for campuses...they are not teachers or educators in any way, shape or form, and provide assolutely no credibility to the argument you seem to be trying to make, whatever it is. Talking heads are not experts.

Not really interested in what a state legislator has to say...just a politician with no hands on experience and looking for votes.

Use your eyes and ask a Boy Scout...that's not a camp "utencil"...it's a standard Swiss Army camping knife and has nothing to do with Boy Scouts. It has a variety of tools on it that aren't open in that pic...including some others that could be used as a weapon.

What if an older kid was picking on the little snot and grabbed the knife...a zillion what ifs...that's why it should never be allowed at a school.

Really...I can't imagine anybody with kids actually arguing that the school was not completely justified. Little Johnny gets mixed signals growing up when Mom fights for him after he broke a rule.

And my Turkish Brother...any little POS who really is in the Boy Scouts ought to know enough to follow the rules...that's what Scouting is all about. Six years old is old enough to understand...or he should not have been given the damn knife.

Assolutely assinine. Let the schools do their damn job...parents ought to be talking to their kids instead of seeking ego support from the internet.

Edit: BTW, just saw where NPR (that's National Public Radio) agrees that the kid ought not be punished. Next, ACORN, the Democrats and the ACLU will be joining the rest of the folks who think it's ok for a 6 year old to break the rules cuz he's a good kid.

The parents (one of the three) bought the knife for the kid...again, nothing to do with Boy Scouts. Give a kid a knife or a gun and you'd better well teach him/her the damn rules.

Clovis Unified School District...Clovis, CA. One of the highest rated school districts in this State...absolutely zero-tolerence on a number of issues including knives or any other weapons, dress code (can't even wear a FSU Bulldog shirt because there is a gang in Fresno called the Bulldogs), etc.

Next door is Fresno Unified, many times larger...allows Bulldog shirts, has "mediation" for Little Johnny and his phuked up parents whenever rules are broken. Despite a huge tax base, one of its high schools is about to lose its accreditation and another one was closed a few weeks ago because of a knife fight between student.

Zero-tolerence, when it is enforced at a school...works. Bull**** case-by-case approaches don't.

Why don't you offer proof at a school where it doesn't work...again, when it is enforced. Please name the school district as I have.

Next...Obama's gonna invite the kid and the school superintendent over for a beer.

Jamo,

We're a suburban farm community, Raymore-Peculiar School District, so pocket knives, picks, shovels can be found in pickups and pockets on quite a few of the boys. I'm pretty active in town and can't remember a misused weapons problem at any of the schools. Our official policy is below but unless a kid is threatening with the pocket knife most of the time they're told to go put it in their vehicle. Now the machine guns and explosive devices mentioned in the policy are another thing. Notice they can bring an unloaded 1860 Colt Army .44 to school for "instructional purposes".:) I imagine California might be different but back here our biggest problem is getting sleepy little school girls to stop at the stop signs coming onto school road from the gravel roads. Hell we're going to have to put up flashing signs now.

The policy must provide for the suspension of not less than one year or expulsion for a student who brings a weapon to school. The term "school" includes, but is not limited to, a school playground, school parking lot, school bus, or a school activity on or off school property. The term "weapon" must be defined in the policy and shall mean "firearm" as defined under 18 U.S.C. 921 and must include a blackjack, concealable firearm, an explosive weapon, a firearm, a firearm silencer, a gas gun, a knife, knuckles, a machine gun, a projectile weapon, a rifle, a shotgun, a spring gun, and a switchblade knife. The policy may allow an unloaded Civil War weapon to be brought
upon school grounds for instructional purposes. The superintendent may modify a weapons suspension on a case-by-case basis, and a district may provide alternative education to a student who violates the weapon provision.

So?

I cannot for the life of me understand the relevance for you quoting what your policy is.

The school in question had a policy...IT was violated, not yours.

Stick to the issue...it does not matter what other policies are followed in any other school. Every community is different. My post about Clovis and Fresno was in direct response to CobraBbill's broadbrush remark, and nothing more. What Clovis does is not relevant to the Delaware school district does, nor are the rules your schools follow.

This is well within the police power of the states, as delegated to school districts.

And BTW, I don't appreciate the broadbrush assumption of what Clovis does has anything to do with your perception of California. Clovis is a rural community where young cowboys sometimes ride their horses to school instead of their pickups, and classes are offered for calf roping and bullriding...only the latter skill is transferable to certain Frisco residents. :p

Perhaps I misunderstood your statement about naming a school where it doesn't work. Does that mean a zero tolerance policy or a no weapons at school policy? How about this:

Sponsored by Union Pacific Foundation
Research Brief
Zero Tolerance Policies

Question:
Are these policies fair or unfair to students in general and minorities in particular?
Is there a model that is working well that is a deterrent to violence and drugs in the school?

Summary of Findings: Much of this brief comes from the ERIC Digest on Zero Tolerance Policies (ERIC #: ED451579). State legislatures and school boards are adopting a growing number of zero-tolerance polices toward weapons, guns, and violence. Zero-tolerance polices are rules intended to address specific school safety issues. Despite the controversies that it has created in school districts throughout the country, zero
tolerance continues to be a widely used response to school disruption and violence.
Results have been mixed. After four years of implementation, the National Center for Education Statistics found that schools employing zero-tolerance policies are still less safe than those without such policies.

And honestly my opinion of California is multifaceted. I have cousins that live from Redlands to Ione. I have not been to Clovis but it sounds like a good solid environment to bring your kids up in much like it is here. Then there's South Central. Sort of like the Prospect corridor in Kansas City. We're just different out here as you are where you live, that's all I'm trying to say.

Beaner...my question was to Cobrabill, in response (a mirror image, if you will) to his question (which I answered).

The stats are interesting...but they really aren't relevant (what do they show...that all kids should be armed? :p ). The rule at the school district in question is zero tolerence, with mandated penalties, and it was clearly broken. Period.

By looking into the kid's background and record in this case, you open the door to do so in each and every case. My hands-on experience (we represented both Clovis and Fresno, by the way)indicates that parents can (and did, on numerous occasions...hell, they continue to do it at Fresno Unified) hire attorneys to represent Little Johnny during the "mediation" between school authorities, the parents and the kid. You wouldn't believe how much of a school's budget is wasted on such crap, and I don't care if it was a great source of revenue for my former firm. Then, every so often, the ACLU jumps in to try to prove the school authorities are biased on race, religion or national origin (each type is represented by lawsuits filed within the past year).

Clovis...never been sued by the ACLU, and rarely challenged by parents on such stuff. Instead, parents sue Clovis because it won't grant them inter-district transfers so their kids can go to Clovis schools.

If you take discretion out of the equation, you cannot discriminate. We are talking about kids attending school, trying to do the job that the stupid morons that bore them aren't doing. Following the rules is the most basic education a school can provide, at least until Obama installs out of work ACORN representatives to sit in on classes (likely wearing black shirts) to insure that anarchy is taught as an alternative lifestyle.

That I can understand. You have a far wider divergence of race, cultures, and just about everything else than what we have back here. We're probably 90%+ common background here. Here if a kid gets in trouble he'll probably get it worse when he gets home than what he ever though about getting it at school. Our teachers call the kids folks, and even grandparents to let them know if they're acting up. Like Clovis we've got a good athletic program and plenty to keep the kids busy. Nothing like hauling hay to put them to bed early so they're not out prowling the countryside.

Suffice it to say that each community is different and what works for one may not work for another.

So how many days detention do you think Maria will get? :)

Excuse me, but I just went back to check something, and I noticed you added everything after "of course" after several other folks had posted and a new page had started. This obviously caused me (the person you were responding to) not to know that you had added that comment. That is basic bad manners around here...it's just flat dishonest. That has been frowned upon around here for a long long time, and is the subject of a sticky on All Cobra Talk. Do not do it again...period.

As to your comment that I am "kidding"...that is a matter of enforcement. You have gone off track a bit here, but do you have anything (even from one of your internet "sources") which indicates this kid was treated differently or was somehow doiscriminated against? If not, then there is nothing to say about it.

Being held to the same standard is a novel idea? I can see the mindset you have, and I do not wish to utilize any of my remaining time on this planet trying to persuade you that cutting a few corners here and there to help the victim de jour is bringing this nation down, starting with the schools. You are entitled to your beliefs, such as they are. :)

Beaner, you keep making assumptions that are flat wrong...why do you feel the need to jump to conclusions to somehow justify what you do in Missouri?

Frankly, everything east of the Rockies is pretty much a cesspool as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal...it just is. :p

Clovis is not really that multi-cultural at all...my daughters were about as "foreign" as it got in most of their classes. Everybody knows everyone else's kids. We found out about one of kids ditching in high school from our friends. I know, tough for you to admit...but there are parts (expanses really) of Kalifornia that are just damn good places to live. Forget LA and Frisco...

392Cobra say's,

:) That's worth a chuckle.

The punishment needs to fit the crime.

45 days of detention is a bit over the edge.

Just my opinion.

:D

I don't think I'm making assumptions, only comparisons. See in our little town Armenians ARE foreign. :p It must be that cesspool effect we have on them. :) I've lived in Seattle, Beverly Hills, Alexandria LA, Salt Lake City, and Independence MO before moving here. Even Independence has a different feel to it than it does here. In this county most people voted Democratic because they were still pissed about Order #11.

All I'm trying to say, and it might be the same thing you're saying, is that communities make the rules that they feel best suits them. It seems the cub scout will get some punishment but a much lesser one and now the rule is being looked at in light of community standards. If Clovis believes their rule works then by all means that should be the rule they enforce. But that doesn't stop other communities from looking at it in light of their standards, and good naturedly making fun of it, much like you do about us back here.:)

And with that I will say no more about it as at some point in time you should stop arguing with a lawyer. You can't win. :D