Your last statement shows how little you know...

Farming is bigger than it's ever been, same for manufacturing. Your confusing "little ticket" with "big ticket". The US is mainly a "big ticket" manufacturer now. We are the dominant infrastructure manufacturer of the world (power grids and such). GE is the only top ten corp from 100yrs ago that still exists and they're bigger than ever.

Granted most of it is automated now so we don't need the unskilled "lug nut twisters" that we once did, they now spend their time suing businesses and leaching off the government teat. (oh, and breeding like rats)

Your last post show's how little you understand...

Farming is a corporate business, were not going back to it being a family business (until the economic collapse is complete, then maybe). :) Todays HUGE farming ventures and coporations such as GE may not be enough to save us this time. That's just an opinion, I hope I'm wrong. It is normal to go through boom and bust in any economy, this time I believe it's different.

While we will see some "boom" again, it will be limited in it's scope. It won't reach the "everyman" on the street like it used to. New wealth will be largely retained by an ever smaller percentage of the people. High unemployment may well remain for decades (plural) to come. It may never recover, even as the "farms" grow larger, GE and other corporations become more powerful, Unions will make a come back. Non Union folks will have a more difficult time securing work, there will be those with good jobs and those with no jobs. Those inbetween (middle class) will shrink in size. The very fabric of America is changing before our eyes.

But hey, it's OK, get out there and play while there's still time! Buy "stuff". No worries here! The only people "going down" are those worthless leaching off the Government folks, screw them! Along the way, you might want to consider how quickly how easily you to could become one of those "worthless folks sucking at the public trough." It just happened to millions of folks who never considered that option their entire life, then BAM, overnight, there they are.

Report: Obama administration to announce $30B bailout loss

12/08/2009, 1:37 PM

By Drew Johnson






The federal government’s bailout of General Motorshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif and Chrysler was viewed as an iffy prospect from the beginning, but the latest reports indicate the United States tax payers will undoubtedly come out on the wrong side of the project.

Although many government officials promised the money used to bailout GM and Chryslerhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif would be repaid in full, the latest report from The Detroit News indicates that will not be the case. The Obama administration is expected to report to Congress later on Wednesday that it will lose about $30 billion of the $82 billion loaned to GM and Chrysler earlier this year.
It remains possible that the government’s losses could narrow, but it would take an IPO far beyond what is currently expected for General Motors. The government has also pumped $13.5 billion into GMAC – the lending arm of both GM and Chrysler – but it remains to be seen if any of that money will be recouped.
Despite the bleak news, President Obama defended his decision to bailout GM and Chrysler earlier on Wednesday. “We also took steps to prevent the rapid dissolution of the American autohttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif industry, which faced a crisis partly of its own making, to prevent the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs during an already fragile time,” Obama said in a speech. “These were not decisions that were popular or satisfying; these were decisions that were necessary.”
The government has already forgiven almost $12 billion in aid given to Chrysler.

To have let them fail (lenghty bankrupcty) only would have shifted where the money went. A classic pay me now or pay me later but you WILL pay.

While many of you are looking down your noses at GM, I will share a story that is a little closer to home. Toyota has decided to divest itself from what was once a joint effort with GM to build vehicles at the Fremont Ca assembly plant. They will shut the plant for good sometime in April 2010. It is estimated that nearly 40,000 jobs will be impacted in Northern Ca. Many of the suppliers for components are centered though the Bay Area and several San Joaquin Valley Cities, they will close as well. I have a very good friend that does consulting work for a nearby business that is a supplier who will no longer be needed. He has built and modified many of the machines in the plant to work quicker, more efficiently and with greater safety. There are suppliers in the area that make Seat cushions, brake lines, plastic parts used in door panels, dashboards and any sort of injection moulded plastic part you can think of, even the frames for the pickups. Some of these companies have been around in one form or another before the joint venture began, they supplied parts to GM exclusively. Toyota however uses a supply sytem that eliminates large inventories oor stocks of unused parts at the assembly plants, they kept a 1 day supply in the pipeline, based on their projected production they ordered parts to allow the assembly of a certain number of vehicles daily. The parts were transported daily for use the following day. The employees of the various suppliers with a few exceptions will all be out of work, so please realize all these companies must do things that we may not agree with but the Automotive Industry or a branch of it touches more lives in one way or another than any other I can think of and puts food on the table for all those families.

Look, the Japanese companies are union free enterprises. Why they would ever consider getting into bed with the devil is beyond me. Modern day unions suck. I have worked in environments where union labor was present. I have had grievances filed against me for moving a coat hangar from my old office to a new office. I had a one filed against me because as I opened a door to a hallway I bumped into a union dufus that had set a ladder up in front of the door. I called him an idiot and that is what spurred on the grievance. Where I live now, a labor union strike caused an entire tire manufacturing plant to be closed. Jobs lost. Tax revenues gone.

Idiots. GMAC has a management culture that does not know how to exist without unions. And so do the other American car producers. Ford is on borrowed time. The unions will kill them as well.

Global competition will spell the final death blow to unions. In the mean time, our govenment has engaged itself in a union life-support process. That too will eventually fail.

Mike

GMAC is a bank not a factory. It was GM's finance arm. They agreed to end deal with GM to accept bailout money last year. They have no union members.

GE's finance arm GEMONEY is also loosing money. $140 billion bailout. They are not union either.

Ford took no bailout money. $1 billion in profits 3ed quarter 2009. They are union.

This is just more money to the nonunion banks.

GM announced it will pay $1 billion per quarter until $8 billion loan is paid off (it's only the first portion of bailout money). They also took about $42 billion more TARP money.

What about the Ford Quality Care? Wasn't that their finance part? I don't remember much about it except they sponsored Dale Jarrett's # 88 race car for several years.

As for who survives and who doesn't, I don't think anyone really can say for certain about that right now. Things are looking better for some companies and worse for others. Volkswagen has now became the largest car company in the world. Who would have believed that would happen 10 years ago.

Ron :)

Ford Quality Care is a billing service for parts and repairs.

Ford Vehicle Financing does only cars and trucks. They celebrated 50 years last summer.

GMAC and GEMONEY issued credit cards.

First rule of free trade, have open markets but buy all you can from your own country. You can't complain about the economy when your house is full of stuff "MADE IN CHINA" and you drive non American cars and trucks.

Sunman

Gee, you mean the end result of all the government regulation imposed on farming over the past 50+ years is that it's now almost entirely industrialized?:rolleyes: (BTW, your correct it is) So much for government looking out for the little guy... Goverment pissed and moaned about the plight of the immagrant farm workers, now we just import anything that can't be machine harvested.

As for the current unemployment, how many companies got rid of employees they needed? - Think about it... Business is nothing more than real life, if your viable you get to stay. Life is hard, get used to it. On this planet nature always wins, we should follow it's example. Man's arrogance is that we feel we know better than the very system that created us. Freedom results in suffering, toil, and elation. I choose freedom and have little need of government's assurance of a nice, safe boring existance.

I speak from experiance, you see I've had to change my business model over the years to adapt to the changing times. Watched a lot of my competitors drop off the grid over that time. Still here, for now.

Well I doubt that Government regulation is what brought about the decline of the family farm. :) I grew up on a little farm, 3 milk cows, couple of horses, various critters. Grampa would sell the milk in town, transporting it with his V8 stick shift (with over drive) Studebaker (loved that car). We grew hay for the animals, no bales though, just pitchfork it onto the trailor and into the loft of the barn. Most of our equipement was literally horse drawn converted to be pulled by a tractor. Plenty fruit trees, lot's of canning to prepare for the winter, big garden, life was hard, frankly...

Government didn't run Grampa out of business, he just got old and nobody else wanted to do it. There was good work in town to be had, more money, less work, it's the American way! :) No doubt the same happened to thousands of folks who used to make a good bit of their liveyhood from the "farm".

I worked for an international corporation for most of my career. An ever changing environment, keep up with the new technology or perish. It was a constant battle to stay ahead, get ahead. My favorite book from those times?

"Who Moved my Cheese". Talks about the need to constantly reinvent yourself in your work, your life. I would bet a good number of folks here have read it?

But I know a couple of people who can't read, at all. There on Government assistance of various kinds, not a lot you can do to help them...

Well I doubt that Government regulation is what brought about the decline of the family farm.

Really Ernie?

Hmmmm....I represent everything from the largest agricultural corporations to the smallest family operations in just about every segment of California agriculture there is, and I've been at it for 30 years...fighting regulatory agencies. I must have been asleep for three decades, cuz I've never been able to figure out how anyone could make generalizations of all of the segments of ag...from the wine industry to cotton farming to dairies.

I'm just wondering how a scooter driver from a Pacific island knows so much about the "ag industry," other than memories of Old McDonald's Farm?

Please...please tell us more about the ag industry. :cool:

For clairification here is my quote on the the farm topic.
Ag Industry? :) Nothing as grandiose as that. I'm talking about a time when just ordinary folk had a large garden, did some canning, milked some cows, raised some chickens, as a large part of their "living", like Grampa. A time when the bullk of the country lived like that, before "Big Ag".

Were not going back to that "time frame" on any kind of large scale. The people are counting on "Big Ag" and "Big Corp" to provide for us. What if the Government SO screws them up they can't? In terms of economic collapse that may not be able to provide for us, it could get real ugly. Those few who DO return to a "farm like" lifestyle may well be looked on as prosperous, smart, able to fend for themselves. The new "wealthy".

I'm not a survivalist type, but maybe, their onto something! I have ten acres of raw land I DON'T care to live on, it's "raw". It's cold and muddy and it snows there, yuck. I like my little warm house and the supermarket down the road. :) But, I think I'll keep my 10 acres in the woods,,, just in case.

In case things like, Obama get's elected for a second term, changes the law so he can run for a third term and the entire country is thrust into full blown socialism. Not that I worry about stuff like that, not me. :)

Ernie,

I don't know just how good or bad shape the Ag industry in this state is, but we used to have 3 dairies up here and now we have none. Also gone are the strawberry fields, much of the ranch land, and much of the walnut and other type trees. My cousin in Arkansas has 2 farms and leases another and he told me they had started saving and storing a lot of what they raise as the market is down so much he can't even sell beef cattle for what it costs to feed them. I believe that I once read some time ago that the next real major war would not be over ideologies and such but over food as the world population keeps growing and the ability to produce food declines. So maybe you had better buy a tractor and get busy on building your pill box for defense.

Ron :LOL:

Actually Ernie, I quoted you.

Really, what's your basis for saying that over-regulation hasn't forced family farms to give way to large corporate entities? I'm sitting here wondering WTF I missed.

Help me please.

:cool:

I think it's just semantics myself, my additional quote.

Just trying to be politically correct, what I really meant was:
No way in hell did Government regulation bring down the family farm. :) Family farm, as I was/am using the term to mean an individual family living mostly off their own land, providing for themselves, not a commercial enterprise. Like it was WAY back in the day. I think it was largely the industrial revolution that put an end to that lifestyle. I don't see that lifestyle making a comeback on anywhere near the scale it once was.

As to Big Ag, "family farms" as we know them today and Government regulation, I will leave that to those certainly more qualified to speak on the subject than I. I just milked three cows growing up, what the hell do I know about farming. :)

Sleep through Farm Aid era did you?? (and yes, there was a republican president for about half of it and a dem congress)

End result of all the tinkering with food by the big corps and government to increase yealds was food the bugs didn't like (can't blame them). Seems like I rarely have to keep flies off my food anymore at a picnic.%/

I miss what apples used to taste like...

Does GMAC finance farm tractors or something? Just wondering... :)

I am surprised that anyone thought that GM and/or Chrysler and/or GMAC and/or anyone else that got a government handout wouldn't be back looking for more. It isn't a question of "if" but rather "when" they will be back.

I heard the other day that in the US, the Federal Government and the various State Governments introduced 40,000 new laws that came into effect on January 1st. Now tell me that government is not too big.

Unions were a great idea when companies were really taking advantage of the workers but they seem to have forgotten that their employer cannot stay in business if the competiton is paying their non-union workers 1/10 of what they are earning. Manufacturing (and many of the good paying manufacturing jobs) have left North America for China and other Pacific rim countries. I really doubt that these jobs will ever come back here.

Wayne