And people who like to point that out with smilies.

Bomelia, I know far more liberals and ultra-liberals in the various spaceflight groups and societies than I do Republicans. Most Republicans point to the space program as the ultimate waste of money... excepting, of course, the jobs it creates in their districts.

I tend to agree. It would be different if we actually had the collective balls to DO something... like go to Mars, or go to one of the moons around Jupiter. But, no, we put a multibillion dollar hunk of aluminum up in space that does little more than go in circles with a very illdefined set of goals. Kind of like Coumbus lookinf out across the Atlantic, but seeing a set of rocky islands and just going there and setting up colonies. Big phucking deal. Back then, and in the 60's, folks had balls AND a tolerance for failure. And it did a lot of good. Now, all we seem to do is to figure out how to redistribute wealth. Not a recipe for success or advancement.

Mike (Gunner, you can call me Mike, bomelia was a poor choice for a username)

,,,guess I need to remove the smiley Mike, my fault. If the shoe fits, wear it!

Well I like the space program and think it should be continued. Take the billions we are giving those corrupt politicians in other countries in foreign aid and use that for our uses.

Ron :)

Now thats an idea worth looking at Ron, cut back on the foreign aid!!

Ernie,

I know that it isn't a new or novel idea, but why keep sending billions to countries that use it to build big palaces for their politicians and to build their military and weapons to fight against us. Look at the big amounts we have given North Korea to try to bribe them to do away with their nuclear program and they talk nice until it is spent than go on another rampage about attacking if they don't get more. And believe me, once you get past the few places in Pyongyang that they allow to be shown on TV, their people are starving and none of that money goes to anything but their military and politicians.

Ron :)

New or old idea, time for a fresh look at everything in the budget. As for Korea, I'd rather send them money than bombs, if money works (carrot/stick thing).

Ernie,

The trouble with sending money to North Korea is they use it to build bombs. We can't buy peace with them. I think we need to take a look at what a lot of our foreign aid goes for and cut back when it is obvious that none of it gets past their politicians.

Ron ;)

And the problem with this debate...
 

...is that if Fox had reported that Obama was increasing funding to NASA, kicking up the space program and calling for an accelerated effort towards a manned Mars mission, the same folks flaming him now would be howling about the scandalous waste of funding that could better be used towards fixing the economy and reducing unemployment.

When truth is rejected in favour of demagoguery, debate with the intention of uncovering and acknowledging what is actually true is impossible as people only seek to validate their idealogy and commune with those who cling to the same comforting convictions. Any dissenting voices or ideas are immediately condemned, attacked and threatened with a "bumpy ride" in the hope that they will go away and stop rocking peoples' worlds with troubling, scary ideas and points of view.

So if that is indeed the case, why am I bothering to comment? Well - most times I don't; but sometimes I just feel like, for the heck of it all.

Have your fun with the name calling, but I give not a **** about "liberal" and "leftist" and all the other shrill screams y'all throw at people with different opinions. It's the unbridled dogmatism that amazes the hell out of me and occasionally drives me comment.

Ernie, I gotta agree with Ron about places like North Korea. Lack of money is not the root of their problem. The root of their problem is their corrupt-to -the-core, narcissistic and absolute power-hungry leadership. Any money sent there just helps the leadership consolidate its position. Unless there can be found a way to reach the masses and encourage them in the reality that they need to make the ultimate blood sacrifice and fight for their own freedom, NK will continue on until it drags the outside world into a nasty, bloody conflict.

The lastest trends for Korea has been less money, more sanctions, I find that encouraging.

Ernie,

It is encouraging but unless China stops them, no sanctions will ever bring them around. As long as China will let them haul supplies and such through Manchuria, no one else can stop that. I just can't see any good coming out of that mess of inbreds that rule there.

Ron %/

Buzz... Please. Give us all a break. OK? If you don't want to deal with the thread (like the new guy) AND all you care to do is pontificate about the the goodness of the debate tactic, then go elsewhere. You are not a moderator and you certainly do not impress me as someone who is "above it all".

Mike (said with a small amount of love)

Mike, give us a break please, quit being such a control freak. Try this, let folks have an opinion without being a psuedo fascist for a change.

Just say NO to being so dang controversial.

Mikey, you came real close to running me off, buddy - but that small amount of love was just enough to keep me around. :3DSMILE:

EDIT - but do you think I'm onto something with the whole dogmatism angle? Even if you totally disagree - you gotta admit that the "cling to the same comforting convictions" line had a nice poetic ring to it...

Well corporate America knows that it can get about 5 engineers from India, China or Russia for the cost of 1 American engineer. Those countries are cranking out college educated people and taking advantage of the price difference.

One of my former coworkers, who has a Phd in Physics wanted his kids to get into science or engineering for college. They had no interest. They just did business school and are off to get their MBAs now. Why would a college student today even consider science or engineering when they think those jobs are just going overseas anyway? That is the perception these young people have.

Do you think the college educated folks in India, China and Russia are making enough money there to buy American sized homes in American style suburbs with multiple cars and long commutes? I don't think so. I'm sure they don't have the bills we have to pay. To compete, will the college educated American middle class have to downsize to miniature homes and commute on motor scooters or bicycles to work? I bet Al Gore would prefer we did that anyway.

Well, we could nothing about education I guess... :)

You do have some valid points, it's not going to be easy.

So Mike let's see some logical expression, any opinions or ideas on what programs you would like to cut to retain our space program or progress it to a direction you see as being progressive?
Me? Personally I would love to see us out of Afghanistan and cut funding to their corrupt government, same with North Korea, Iraq, Israel, and are we still sending money to Germany, Japan, and Iran? You get the federalies to cut those (and other frivolous perks like the infamous the 2 billion dollar bridge to nowhere) from the budget and you can call the shots for Nasa.
In my mind, I still think we have a ton of work on the foundation of America that would be better served with those funds and I'm not talking about food stamps and social programs. I'd send the money to repairing our infrastructure before sending a man or even a rocket to Mars. We have Nation Parks that are crumbling, bridges and highways that need sever inspection and repair, power lines and towers that have been hanging for 50+ years that require attention. Isn't social Security about to run out? When I retire in 15 years will there be the umbrella that many here are dependent on? Unless we're heading to space to retrieve something that will create a better environment here on earth and not just planting a flag on a distant rock or ice ball then let's not put our, our children's, and our children's children's tax dollars there.

Maybe we should just send them bags of rice and other food aid. We can drop it from a B-2 just to keep things interesting.....:D