What I was trying to relay many, many replies ago is that when a (American) job is sent overseas in search of cheap labor how often do we see it reflected in the price? Not often enough are those saving passed on to the consumers. What comes to mind right off the bat is Nike. Years ago I remember seeing a special on how their shoe production had gone overseas, worker pay was like 28 cents a day, and yet a pair of shoes - I think Jordans were the ones singled out - still carried a price tag of $125 + at the time. This was in the early '90's.

In 2009 Footjoy shuttered their plant here that made the high end Footjoy Classic, a shoe used by most pro's and many amateurs that enjoy the finer things in life. This plant had been around since the '50's. Supposedly not enough interest or demand for this premium golf shoe. They are now carrying the ICon line which replaced it and are made in Asia.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1024-Golf-...-plant-closing

What else has to leave this country in order to appease stockholder profit margins? I think any job is a good job and better then relying on government support and I'm sure that many who've lost their jobs would echo that sentiment.

Every American job that goes offshore is awful, no question. Wonder if labor will ever look at themselves for an answer to that problem rather than the Govt?

And the shoe example you use. Yep, they get the shoes made cheap overseas. Then they pay every big name basketball player $8 million a year to wear their shoes. So blue collar workers can watch them play on TV. They also runs shoe adds on those games. What did they pay Tiger to wear their logo? $60 million? That's a Dollar a pair if they sold 60 million pairs. All those payouts go into the selling price of the shoe and the advertising is expensive too.
And I can see the reaction of American labor when a boss says, "Sorry, no raises this year. Even tho our product was flying off the shelves at $125.00 each, we decided to lower the price to $85.00 just to be nice guys!" "So now we can't give any raises, and the stockholders are really pissed too."

What the heck? I swear, this thread will die without me. Not that it don't deserve it. :LOL:

But there might be a little entertainment value left in it. :3DSMILE:

Jamo, thanks for the kudos. Mutual, my friend. And since we are posting only the unvarnished asoblute truth here, I got no choice but to admit that you are absolutely correct about me being full of sh!t. I know it, you know it, Fred knows it, we all know it.

And from that postulation, we might derive that I, and I alone, come closest to pulling the proverbial carrot of of my azz, since only I have all the ingredients.
But that is not entirely true.
Let me point out: Since we are all just as full of sh!t, carrots would thrive in this Lounge and I think we should get some bunnies. ;)

It ain't that important as long as we can solve world philosophy problems better than serious politicians; politicians that are anal retentive, and would willingly stunt the growth of said carrots and damage the economy by holding back. :JEKYLHYDE

======

Anthony, I am certainly not one of those employees. :LOL:

I'm better at the mechanical aspect of railroading than the upper brass ever dreamed of being and I can prove it. But it is not their fault. They are all rail-inexperienced beancounters, every one of them, and only good at manipulating money and stocks.

Now if they let me handle the company checking account, then I might be out-classed. Like I said, might. I would like to try it, it is a secret desire of mine. I, and I alone, know how to make the coal pay me to haul itself and I should patent the idea and ride free thereafter.

And , yes, it is a great thread, heartwarming during a cold, claustrophobic winter, really. :D

=======

Dan, as different business race to be laborless, who in the heck are they going to sell the macaroni to, their own investors? Are we to become a nation of indolent stockholders? Can we survive without any labor at all? %/

It will be like playing Monopoly. Nearly pure Capitalism. Maybe a little continued Socialism to let everybody keep going around Go after they are bankrupt. No sense owning Park Place if there is nothing left to collect. $200 is better than nothing. Sounds boring though. :confused:

Nations don't fail without ...until they have first failed within. Or something like that.

Wes

...

:LOL:

Yeah,I know it Wes.:LOL::LOL:

In my case though,it takes one to know one.:3DSMILE:

Yes Wes...imagine: We could pay farmworkers more if the Lounge regulars simply donated all of the sh!t we are collectively full of (and replenish every day) to the Farm Bureau for use by its members to feed the world.

We can then proceed forward knowing that other countries are relient on our intestinal fortitude.

:)

Dan, as different business race to be laborless, who in the heck are they going to sell the macaroni to, their own investors? Are we to become a nation of indolent stockholders? Can we survive without any labor at all? %/

They will 'sell' to those living off the all giving Govt.

How that will work is beyond me, but liberals seem convinced it is a viable plan!

Our intestinal fortitude?? Good one, Jamo. Guess that's the way it really is, too. :LOL:


How that will work?? Well maybe it will work just like the Monopoly game. The one, single corporate investor that comes out on top, will own all the property and collect everybody's $200 as they go around Go. Seeing as how the bank will run out of money, the government will have to print more to keep up. And that's probably the way it really already is, too. :eek: :3DSMILE:

######

A lot of you know that my job is to haul coal as an overpaid union railroad worker. The company would like to eliminate my job, but they don't have it down pat yet.

I do have it down. Earlier in the thread, I said, "I know how to make the coal pay me to haul itself ".

Ain't nobody going to bite on this? :( :JEKYLHYDE

Wes

...

Wes, we know who the single corporate investor is, they're over in the far east and have buying up our debt at a dizzy pace. Simply put, they are at the beginning of a industrial revolution, similarly to where this nation was 100 years ago. It will catch up to them, as a communist nation they will be a regime change soon enough due to the accelerated pace of growth and the mega separation between the haves and have nots.

Addressing issue with farms, many of the farmers here in California have done one of two things, sold out to developers or over used insecticides for the last half century and ruined their land. No this is not a fact so please don't quote me, however when I go to the store and buy fruit or veggies, they've often got those little pesky stickers that say "product of..." which of course makes me think we bought the farm on that market too.

And on to the union job that you have, that I have, and maybe some of the others here also give thanks for. Yes I'm overpaid for what I do, it's really an assembly job more then anything but it's in a industry that is known for super spending and I don't object to a little of it landing in my wallet. However it is an industry that for the time being and near future is only thinning a bit. Some jobs have gone to Canada, some to Europe, but for the most part it's an industry started and based here in the states and not leaving. What is threatening it is a flood of non union labor and a upper management that only sees bottom line and profits. I'd be happy to do my position at a lower rate but I could no longer afford to live in L.A. with a comfortable life style. Unfortunately L.A. is where most of the work is based. And I'd miss the great health care our union provides. At the same time that we're shedding jobs we recorded another record year.

God save America (from ourselves)

The only people truly overpaid are the ones that vote themselves their own salaries, benefits, and raises at the taxpayers expense. Everybody else lives in a capitalistic system, such that if they price their productivity too high, they may lose their employment opportunities even though they may blame others as being responsible.

Now you've done it.

If you admit it's not a fact, why post it...just some hateful opinion you've pulled out of your ass?

I have not, and likely never will, appreciate your presence on these boards for the past month of your existence here. Has nothing to do with your political persuasion, but rather your desire to throw out shocking soundbites with absolutely no credible foundation.

We have the same damn thing going on in another thread. Post what you think is true - somebody will likely tell you otherwise if they think you are wrong. Stand by what you say or admit that you made a mistake, learn and move on.
Why does that seem to be more and more difficult for folks from both sides of the aisle?

And how many here actually know how to spell 'aisle'?:LOL:

Steve

Wes,
I'll bite - I saw that earlier and meant to ask - too many distractions on my other PC...

So how do you manage to move coal that way?

Steve

Me! Me! "No man is an aisle!"

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Touche!

I'll have to remember that for next time...

Coal fired locomotives - or am I plum loco?

God, I'm glad you've asked. As you can tell, I'm bursting to tell you all. :LOL:

Of course, I am full of sh!t as usual. :rolleyes:

Here's the prelude:
As a progressive company, where the profit of the union of stockholders is pitted against the portion of income paid union labor, my company has done several things that seem to have potential to lower their labor costs, yet maintain or increase said profits. This is a given and just makes common sense.

The inclination seems to be towards intricate automation where the trains can be run individually by remote control from distant locations, or even pure computer control, but requires increasingly expensive complicated equipment and precision execution from afar to keep trains from running into one another. **)

But all this is entirely unnecessary. :MECOOL:

In keeping with Warren Buffett's fondness for trains, including model railroading I assume, I have an idea to sell him. Below is a simplistic overview. :D

All need be done, is to create a large circular track like a simplistic model railroad. Basically, the track is already there in the form of parallel multiple main tracks and/or numerous main Corridors such as North, Central and South. The part that is missing, is there needs to be more cars, enough to fill the rail continuously in one giant loop. Trains simply can't collide if there is only one train, one big one. Loopy, I know. ;)

There is already technology in place to periodically place locomotives throughout the train. We call it DP for Distributed Power. Normally I have one of my three locomotives now placed in back of the heavy coal train as a pusher, run by radio. Under hard, but slow acceleration, such as from a dead stop on a grade, the DP unit takes up some of the rear slack and prevents the shear weight of the entire train from being across the first knuckle (sacrificial coupler, hitch) with all three overloading it. It still happens on occasion. It's called a break-in-two, or "getting a knuckle", for obvious reasons.

But DP still isn't good enough. Locomotives burn expensive fuel going up intermediate hills and waste it with brakes down the other side. And they aren't necessary in this case either. Why? Because it is all down hill from the mines in a macro sense, that's why. So, in reality, the coal will deliver itself. Actually the process will run away, if not restricted. The idea is to load coal at the mines, and the weight of the loaded coal plus cars hauls the empty cars back up the hill to the mine in a continuous loop process.

So here is where I make the coal pay me. A long section of track needs a third rail. Instead of full locomotives, all we need do is have cabless slave traction motors, in dynamic regenerative mode, generate electrical power back into the third rail instead of drawing from it. Then sell the electricity into the power grid. The coal ships itself and pays me to do it. Heck, I could make free money shipping dirt, at least until America was as level as the oceans.

Sure, there is probably some obstacles to this working. The inherent B.S. factor which I seem unable to escape. :JEKYLHYDE

Rats, called to work on a coal train at Glendive. I wonder how fast I could get it going if I let it roll? :p

Wes

...

Unions. Ugh. And when they are gone, I will be a happy guy. Most folks (not all) I know in unions have an attitude that sounds like "I deserve a job".

Well you don't. But what you do deserve is my respect for your right to persue happiness. So when your job finally and thankfully goes overseas where someone will be GRATEFULL to do it at a more reasonable price, I will be happy to see you go and persue another way of life that doesn't make mine more expensive.

Mike

...uh oh.%/

Won't work:rolleyes:...



Yup, perpetual motion is a figment of your imagination :eek: ;) !

Nice day-dream, though...

Well, actually it would work if that was the only limiting consideration. I'll explain.

Being full of sh!t gives me a fertile mind, if you get the sorry pun of my drift.

Here's how to see it. Imagine a mill paddle-wheel turning to grind flour or generate electricity. The water falls into "buckets" on the wheel and the weight of the water, on the downside, makes the wheels turn because the water empties out of the buckets at the bottom, before the upside. The buckets with the water are always heavier than the empty buckets going back up and around. The wheel turns because of gravity. As so it goes with continuous coal cars that are loaded on the way down, but empty on the way back up. Really, it's in effect, the circle-railroad is like a giant water wheel. We could put anything we want in the coal cars at the top as long as it is heavy ...water, dirt etc... and emptied at the bottom.

Like I said, it might get going too fast, free running, unless we subtract some energy from it to slow it down. As an example, we could make the cars turn a giant wheel instead of generating electricity back into a third rail.

Besides the B.S. factor, an unrelated main problem is that a long heavy train going down an intermediate hill would be pulling a long heavy train up the other side. The knuckles wouldn't take the strain. They are at the limit now. Our best are only rated for 395,000 pounds of tension and we have traction meters to carefully watch this. Better knuckles would then wreck the drawbars, and no longer be sacrificial. It is even possible, if it would even work, that the connecting mechanism would have to be entirely made of exceedingly tough carbonic fiber as is proposed in the solution of this interesting age-old "Giant Space Rope" dilema.

In the end, the real solution is to build new cross continental super "Autobahn" power line grid structure as Ike did concerning interstate highway systems. Burn coal at the mines and let power ship itself, relatively labor and railroad free. I think McCain would have been receptive to the idea, since he is also a nuclear power supporter, one of the few real supporters of this very viable replacement technology IMO.

But considering coal interests, petroleum interests and railroad interests, it is easy to see powerlines will be cooly recepted by major political parties and why McCain, a moderate common sense guy as opposed to all the rest, was not elected in my book. These days, common sense breaks the Golden Rule regarding who has the gold. :CRY:

As for perpetual motion, I will try and start another another weird thread regarding perpetual motion, but, for now, I apologise for my late inablity to make timely replies, as I have hungry stock-holders clamoring to be fed. This week will be somewhere north of 100 hours, but I think I will get back to enjoy nearly all three of my days off starting late Wednesday, if I live through it.

Wes

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