So Bush was 'fooling' the CIA, FBI, President Clinton, Al Gore, congressional Democrats and the intelligence services of other countries even before he was elected? Damn he is 'fantastic' in that regard!


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." S
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Maricopa, I think the liberal expectation is that all people lie to meet their ojective. So they expect that their own side will lie and they are ok with their own side lying if it meets their objective (help themselves / attack America). Therefore it's easy for a Liberal to make the assumption that others also lie to reach their aim. They have a negative view of life in general and don't believe that others may not operate in that fashion.

Really, imagine what it's like to live a life like that? No wonder polls show that Republicans are happier people in general.

Liberals, don't think I don't know what you think... :) It all begins with a lack of Faith.

Bush took the rhetoric that was prevalant as it concerned WMD's and Saddam to a whole new level to justify a 'first strike'. It is common knowledge on both political sides and recognized by the major populace of the US (conservatives and liberals) that in doing so he misled the American people. His administration for the last 7 years or so is STILL consistent with that philosphy, mislead, lie, make up stories to 'get r done', the Bush way, there is no other way. Sure ALL Presidents and political types engage in this game at some point, lie, mislead, bend the truth (Clinton comes to mind :D ). In Bush's case I find that behaviour well over the top and considerably more dangerous than an affair with an intern. As it regards people, countries, war and the world while under the guise of 'protecting our freedom', Bush's lies have no equal.

Will McCain continue along the same line? I think so, it's to dangerous to risk in my opinion. Will "O No" do any better? I don't know, there's a risk no matter which way we go.

So Democrats had rhetoric and Bush had lies....
Funny that the 9-11 commission didn't find that he lied or coerced the intelligence agencies into fudging facts, but as long as 'it is common knowledge' I guess that's enough.

I conclude it is your contention, based on, among other things, the 9-11 commission that Bush did NOT mislead, coerce or fudge the facts as he led this country into a war with Irag. I respectfully disagree, I think he did so knowlingly. I think he did so because he thought it was the right thing to do and the 'end justifies the means'. I think, like Colin Powell, he was sincerely mistaken. But I never did buy into Machiavelli's 'rant', "the end justifies the means". It is a radical idea that a single man knows what's best for his country, in spite of what the country may think, that makes people like Bush so dangerous to the world. Thats why we need the checks and balances our system is setup on. In this case those checks and balances were thwarted by the administration.

I respectfully disagree, I think he did so knowlingly.

Good for you but the facts speak otherwise. Arguing what you 'think' instead of what is known isn't very effective. If there were some...oh I don't know...evidence that Dick Cheney Photoshopped a picture of Saddam standing by a big bomb that read, 'WMD' and then stuck it into a pile of papers at the CIA I'd change my contention.

It is a radical idea that a single man knows what's best for his country,...
Thats why we need the checks and balances our system is setup on. In this case those checks and balances were thwarted by the administration.

Bush does not run the country singlehandedly, the congress (one of the checks and balances) voted to go to war based on the same intelligence that Bush received. He did not manipulate, invent or otherwise mislead those people. But I have no doubt that will not convince you or others, you are intent on believing what you will and I'll leave you to it.

Cheers.

Maricopa, your dealing with one of those seen it all, knows it all people. Heck!, we've all been anxiously waiting for the details on his space shuttle flight.

Fact: Colin Powell has apologized for HIS misleading presentation to the UN, calls it one of the worst mistakes he ever made.
Fact: Dick Cheney has acknowledged it was a mistake to think the troops would be hailed as 'libertators'.
Fact: Bush has said he regrets using terms such as "Wanted, Bin Laden, dead or alive". Tough Texas talk works well, in Texas, not so much on the world scene.
Fact: The investigation as it concerns the outing of a CIA employee by the Bush administration continues. Those who were all ready found guilty were pardoned by Bush. The cover up continues, but is weakening.

It is ludicrous to suggest that the USA was not misled by our leaders as it regards the facts and details of WHY we invaded Iraq. Along with so MANY other issues as it regards this administration. Sincerity cannot be used as an excuse for bending the law or the truth.

For instance, as much as I am disgusted by the prisoners in Gitmo I support the LAW in that they should have at least fundamental access to the courts. Something Bush has fought long and hard (and sincerely) to stop. His definition of 'torture' is ambigous at best and illegal at worst. FACT: Some FBI officialls refused to take part in CIA briefing sessions at Gitmo because in THEIR opinion it WAS torture. What is or isn't torture is shrouded in such mystery the truth is bent like a pretzel, you'll never get a straight answer from Bush on that topic. Fact is, you'll never get a straight answer from Bush on virtually ANY issue! I am amazed at the lengths he will go to to thwart an investigation. Some members of congress have actually proposed impeachment. I can't say I disagree with that, but would not support it without more 'facts' concerning the specific issues on which it would be based. Probably best to just let his term run out and then kick his a$$ back home where 'tough talk' is more appropriate.

By the way, I certainly support the troops and a PLAN to withdraw in an orderly fashion.

Cripes Ernie, you're like wrestling with Jello™. Instead of countering arguments you pick new subjects. Countering your comments can easily be done, but I just don't have time for 12K posts.

Hey I hear Obama's gonna send the Gitmoees to Hawaii, be sure to treat 'em nice. And don't forget: Bush Lied - Democrats Rhetoric'd! :LOL:

I surely posted something here... but I can't stand reading this junk. Again, when you insult a person, faith, belief system, etc, you also insult the people who hold with that person, faith or belief system. Not exactly a community building exercise. Given the fact that this country seems split down the middle means that at least 50% of the CC community would appreciate folks not calling President Bush what folks have been calling him.

Same for that POS Obama. (he ain't the pres yet)

Mike

Mike, can you honestly say that you have never insulted Clinton or Carter (and thus their followers)?

Steve

No.

But they need insulting.

Mike

So do Bush and his followers.

:p

From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator,
to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory
committee, he logged 143 days (4 & 3/4 months), of experience in the
Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and
working.
After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was
ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of
Abraham Lincoln, FDR,JFK and Ronald Reagan.
143 days. I keep leftovers in my refrigerator longer than that."

What Bush deserves is a great big thank you for having the guts to do the right thing when it comes to homeland security.

What do you want to bet that Obama never goes one-on-one with McCain in a "town hall meeting" forum?

http://www.youdecide2008.com/2007/06...m-dnc-and-gop/

Mike

Mike is on the money.....Mc challenged....'O' No!a number of times and so far...nothing...

Are you too young to remember Jimmy Carter?

All this talk about how useless and wasteful our involvement in Iraq was and how it was all predicated upon a lie reminds me of the Korean War. Truman had the guts to keep the Communists out of the south based upon the "lie" of the domino theory. He had a 27% approval rating when he left office. The war was denigrated at every turn as a wasteful "police action" that needlessly cost us 60,000 men in three years. YET, can you imagine the world without South Korea; with all those millions of people enslaved for the last sixty years. One can only imagine the horrors. Iraq is a similar situation and will result in even greater benefits to the world when it becomes a successful and responsible democratic/capitalist republic. We will succeed and as with South Korea the entire world will benefit, especially the USA. Bush is more like Truman than people realize. History will prove him to be faced with enormous difficulties not of his own making that he dealt with with courage, honor and a deep love of country.

And then an entire generation watched M*A*S*H and saw good 'ol Hawkeye and BJ turn saving S. Korea from communist rule into nothing more than a simple minded anti-war screed..... :mad:

I thought talking politics was forbidden on this forum.

Or is that just that other cobra forum?