The first gulf war was fully justified, that's why we had the support of the rest of the world, as for the Iraq war, that was not justified, and we had very little support in the world for doing so, we had full control of the airspace, and we all but decimated his war fighting capability. So there was no real good reason to attack other than to plunder what riches i.e. oil that Bush and Cheney could get there grubby claws around.
Oh and to fatten up their buddies with NO BID CONTRACTS!

Feel free to move to a different country if you aren't happy here. The freedom we all have to express our opinions without fear (at least not yet) of the government coming to visit us is because of the blood that has been shed in the pursuit of protecting our freedom and that of those around us. I may not like everything about this war and I certainly would agree how botched it has been at times but the bottom line that Saddam was a genocidal maniac that needed to be stopped before he made his way over to our country. You cannot say you support our troops and oppose the war.

I would without a doubt say it is time for us to leave but Obama doesn't want to bring the troops home he wants to send them to Afganistan instead. I would venture a guess that if he gets his way that war will last longer and have more of our boys killed than Iraq. Governments (republican or democrat) are all foolish if they think they will put an end to the 2000 years of fighting that has been going on over there.

By the way, read this link and tell me again if I am wrong about his stand on comfort care for partial birth abortions. Get your facts straight.
http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/Release101608.html

Well lets just thank God CobraBill isnt in charge,even how you can compare the death penalty to Abortion shows your a cold hearted hater of the INOCENT UNBORN they never did anything to deserve death,just to justify the low life mother that doesn't want to be a loving responsible parent of a wonderfull child so she can F@ck anyone and anything only to throw away a perfect life inside her like trash on the ground,Such is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY,you fit right in.Dang Im proud to say after 4 great kids and 4 more grandkids Our house and those of our children respects life and the one who gives it and takes it away Our Father in Heaven,you will tell it all to him one day Bill I hope he has compassion for you ,your going to need it...No wonder this world is going to hell in a handbasket when this type of mentallity prevails in and election.As stated before Lord help us all,becuase neither party can fix the imorall sickness that this country has and that is really were our problems come from.

Amen to that!

Times two......

Times three......

[quote=csx4910;899708]Feel free to move to a different country if you aren't happy here. The freedom we all have to express our opinions without fear (at least not yet) of the government coming to visit us is because of the blood that has been shed in the pursuit of protecting our freedom and that of those around us. I may not like everything about this war and I certainly would agree how botched it has been at times but the bottom line that Saddam was a genocidal maniac that needed to be stopped before he made his way over to our country. You cannot say you support our troops and oppose the war.

I would without a doubt say it is time for us to leave but Obama doesn't want to bring the troops home he wants to send them to Afganistan instead. I would venture a guess that if he gets his way that war will last longer and have more of our boys killed than Iraq. Governments (republican or democrat) are all foolish if they think they will put an end to the 2000 years of fighting that has been going on over there.

Well I for one am not going any ware, it seems you're the one not happy with the way things are going, why don't you leave!
While it's true Saddam was a genocidal maniac, we had left him impotent as far as his ability to wage war, and we controlled the his air space, there was no need to invade without a plan to occupy that country, that's where most of the deaths occurred, in our hast to make it to Bagdad, we left Saddams armories wide open, for them to be looted, this was so badly planned, it seems the republicans are as bad at fighting wars as they are at running a country!

Have you guys even read the Bible lately? It seems very pro-death for pretty much everyone and everything, including unborn kids.

First off your bringing your religion into this discussion, so you leave it open to me to criticize, I don't believe in ancient religions I don't believe in God and I certainly don't believe in Jesus, now its fine if you wish to believe in such childish nonsense, but don't you dare push your crap on me! this country was not founded on Christianity or any other religion, it was in our for fathers opinions that religious theocracy was a dangerous thing, and we were keeping the control of religious zealots out of government in as much as we were keeping the crown out. Now if sex education was properly taught in school or at home we would not have the number of unwanted pregnancies and then we would have far fewer un-wanted pregnancies and fewer abortions it's better to eliminate the problem there then it is to inject your religious beliefs on the rest of us, and once again I will say, it's a right to birth, what are those religious zealots that espouse this right to life crap doing about the ones that are here, NOTHING! And as for the death penalty, the best estimates are that 15% of them are innocent! so you tell me is that not murder too?

Wow I knew you were way out ther il pray for you still you will remember this conversation when you are standing before the thrown one day begging forgivness you need your soul washed clean I pray he will for your sake.I wash my hands of you and any more of your Blasphemus comments.How sad the world has a grip you.Because this life so temporary and Eternaty last forever,hope you have a real good Fire suit.Your gonna need it.Rejecting Jesus is the only unforgivable sin.And all this hate is a byproduct.Bill il put you on my prayer list.I will let God bother you insted.Be happy now it's all you have got.

Well no need to pray for me, but thank you anyway! first off there is no hell, Christianity was the only religion to ever come up with a concept like that, and it's just to maintain control over their flocks. And you my friend if you really believe may be in just as much jeopardy as me.

As historians have faithfully recorded, the spread of Christianity and Islam was accompanied by a good measure of killing of pagans and destruction of their places of worship. Also, many schools of Islam view the Christian belief in the Holy Trinity itself as idolatrous. Thus there are some differences between the three major Abrahamic religions on how to view other religions on the issue of idolatory.


So if you are going to believe in ancient religions and stake you eternal soul on such ideas, you better make sure you are right! Or you may find yourself in the same boat as I.

Foerever is a long time to be wrong!!
 

Well better check your facts ther not correct but well thats ok because I and everyone else know were you stand and you know mine.The Koran was writen 600 years after the Tora and i can thank Aberham for Islam as he took his hand maiden on the advise of his wife and bore Ishmale its realy kinda funny because Isack being the chosen and his half brother reconsiled later in life but islam never wants to see that and that is were that hole line of other haters started.If you really cared and I know that you dont ther is so much proof out ther but your uncaring attitude wont let you investigate on your own.Your the one who needs to make sure. My trust lay solely that Jesus died for me and thought of each and everyone of us as he hung ther on the Cros Inocent without blame, to sheild me from an eternanty seperated from him, by sin.These are the foundations of my life and on this Rock I will Stand.All other ground is sinking sand.The respect for unborn life is grounded on Jesus's teaching.If one took time to look these priciples voting a party at least becomes easier I dont agree with everything that my party does but on Abortion we agree.So many people dont know what the cadidates stood for of corse Mr.Obama switched his veiw so often I could hardly keep up.O yea on that hell thing you Dnt want to be wrong since it's its forever.:CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::C RY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY::CRY:and on and on and on and on with no hope...

CobraBill, If I am wrong about there being a heaven and a hell(which I am not) then I haven't lost anything. But what have you lost if you are wrong?????:eek: Only eternal damnation!! The "many"schools of Islam are false teachings perverting the bible into the Koran. You are correct that they veiw the holy trinity as false but it is they who are worshipping a false God. With all the science in teh world they still can't recreate a single blade of grass. If you choose to belive that you evolved from slime to an ape then a human then you have more faith than you think. If we supposedly evolved from an ape then why are there still apes?

OK...ya'll know you ain't gonna change each other's opinions on religion. Besides, ya'll are wrong.

Calm down.

It's still my responsability to tell him as comanded by the King of Kings.If I dont see were someone is coming from I would be wrong for not asking,Based on the beleifs thats bee handed down to me from our pastors.That being said it's easy to see why some people vote the way they do.And in the End Game we will see who is wrong,as I have told some good Muslem Friends of mine,and you all...Ok im off the pulpit now

The Czar gave us Lenin, Batista gave us Fidel, and Bush gave us Obama.

Bill, I would never try to shake your faith in any God you desire to fallow, I was raised Catholic and I have to tell you it left a bitter taste in my mouth, I then as a teenager went out on my own to discover other religions, most all have some good, only one I found I really respected, but my point in this whole conversation was that no matter what your belief is, you cannot ram it down the thoughts of everyone around you, this is America and we are a diverse country made up of all religions and nationalities, and it's that difference that makes us great!
That's said if you think that the republican party is your knight in shining armor well then you are sorely mistaken, they had full power for 12 years why didn't they do anything about abortion then? because its politically handy to have that card, it's just like with the second amendment, neither party will ever take your guns away it would take a 2/3 majority to pull it off, and these guys can't even decide what to have for breakfast much less all get together on something like that! and by the way John McCain was for a women's rights before he was against it, I just fear religious teerany not un-like the Taliban, religious zealots are still zealots no matter who's brand of religion they fallow. and I have to tell you I think I live way more Christ like then most Christians I know.

I agree with you that the republicans are not going to be much help and that it is most churches and "christians" profess a faith but don't follow it - but remember this Christ is not found in a church but in a heart and just like I can't lump all democrats as left wing liberals don't lump all christians into "right wing zealots". My faith is personal to me and each personal has to answer to their belief system.

Just don't spend your life blaming God for the actions of people in a church. People's bad experiences with a religion or a type of church has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the hypocrites and humnas that are in it. Too many Christians think they are better than others and turn others away from the true Christ saving grace. A true believer know how broken and pitiful we are as humans - the only difference is whether we ask Christ's forgiveness.

To all...

As Jamo suggested earlier....calm down.

There are certain topic areas of discussion that we find in a zone of "extreme uncomfortability" for a friendly community forum.

Serious religion is one of them. Many topics hit deep nerves of passion and this is one of them. Our experience shows no dialog remains cordial when you get to a deep nerve.

Looks like a few here have gotten there.

Please respect each others beliefs...and leave it at that. Move on to new topics.

Have a great Thanksgiving...whoever you are thanking for things. :p

ron
ClubCobra Moderator