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There have been some pretty rough times in the US before, from the 1900's to the early 2000's.

Here is a short one page synopsis on "Monetary Policy Disasters" that seemed exceptionally well written.

Same thing in word.doc.

Wes


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I work in an Oil Refinery here in Bakersfield, We have been told they are closing, we are shut down and awaiting the layoffs, they should be coming in the next week.

This really sucks I figured I was halfway protected because of gasoline.

Does anyone need a Hydrocracker Control board operator??:(

Wayne, mills are paying $310 per m for Doug Fir, $225 for hemlock, mixed pulp is at $19.00-21 a ton.

2 years ago we could get more than double those prices. Every mill in my region is full of both logs and finished products with no markets for anything. Our usually fantastic raw log export market just tanked. I heard that two shiploads were turned around as the buyers in the far east failed. One ship can hold almost all of my yearly production.

If my creditors will agree to take interest payments only I think I can last a year, after that they can add my equipment to the hundreds sitting idle right now on distressed sale lots.:CRY:

I have some of the most talented guys in the woods, many of them will lose their homes.

Scott S

Scott .... some years ago , I used to work with the mills in the SE and remember calling on Gulf Lumber in Mobile , AL . The Maintenance Supervisor was complaining that the lumber from Canada could be put on the boat in Mobile Bay cheaper than he could do it from 15 miles away .... so I understand where you`re coming from . Looks like we are doing everything we can to run jobs out of the country . I was in Eugene , OR some years ago when the spotted owl was declared an endangered species ... and the damn things were living in downtown San Francisco . So much for endangered ! Unfortunately , your misfortune was our gain in the SE as we managed to hold off most of the moonbats . Also , most of our production was soft wood ( Southern Pine ) ... and no spotted owls here .
Again , sorry you and your men have to go through this and pray everything works out for you .
FYI .... here is SC , the overall unemployment is now a little over 9.5% with at least two counties in the 17 to 19% range .

Whoops. I might have been wrong that Americans were unwilling to work really cheap for overseas wages.

IBM :rolleyes:

Wes


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Scott
Sorry to hear about your situation. I wish you and your men the best and I hope that you can hang in there. Several of the mills we are closing for a couple of weeks are on the west coast as the Asian pulp market has tanked from what I have heard. The buyers simple are not buying, probably waiting for the prices to fall even further.

Bobcat
I travel Interstate 87 (the main north-south route between New York City and Montreal) on a very regular basis. Every day I pass dozens and dozens of truckloads of round logs heading north bound. This has been going on for years and is still going on today. Canada and the US are partners, not enemies. There is give and take in this relationship. Our 2 countries are the biggest two-way trading partners in the world. Our problem (for both Canada & the US) is the Pacific rim countries that don't give a damn about the workers health & safety, the environment, patent laws, or anything else.

The company I work for has spent billions of dollars over the past 15 or 20 years on cleaning up our emissions, just like every other forest products company in North America. In the same period, companies in China and other Asian countries continue to spew out millions of tons of every kind of crap you can imagine so that they can manufacture cheap crappy products for Wal Mart.

Wayne

Wayne ... I didn`t intend to imply/say that the US and Canada were/are enemies .... or offend you . What I should have clarified was , as I said , it was 10 to 12(?) years ago ... and at that time , there were a host of factors that figured into the equation . One of which was the difference between the value of the US dollar and the Canadian dollar ( about 25% at the time ) and the environmental issues the US producers were starting to face . The people I worked with in our Canadian region told me that at the time , the regs in Canada weren`t as tight as they were here ... but that has since changed . Also , back then, a lot of the timber was being put out of bounds by environmental groups here , a lot of the mills here hadn`t upgraded their equipment as fast as they should have .
We are actually more in agreement than disagreement on these issues , but back then it was a fact that Canadian lumber could be put on a boat in Mobile as cheap or cheaper than the local mills could ... and this is not intended as a slam on anyone .

Bobcat
No offense taken. We always hear up here that our costs are much higher than down there. :LOL: Everyone is jockeying for position and I believe very little that any politician has to say. It is very scary when we hear Scott say that some of his employees may lose their homes.

One thing is for sure, if we (everyone in North America) doesn't smarten up, and learn from our mistakes, there won't be much left here for our grandchildren to inherit except an awful lot of debt. I try to buy products made in Canada or the US but it is getting more and more difficult to do.

Wayne

The big shoe dropped, today I laid off eight guys, four sub-contractor cutters, and four log trucks until April...perhaps.

This is the toughest industry in the States, I feel pretty wimpy right now.

Scott S

I feel your pain Scott.

Scott,

Sorry to hear that. My neighbor across the street has worked for this mill as their head maintenance supervisor. About 8 months ago he hurt his back really bad and had to have 3 surgeries on it. He got on permanent disability about a week before they laid his whole crew off and they get nothing, so his disability was a blessing in disguise as he can live on it. He is like me and doesn't do a lot. He does go deer hunting and that helps with the food.
I am not sure about this, but I heard that three of the companies that own most of the logging trucks around here are thinking about closing down and selling their trucks.

Ron :(

When the fickle economy crashes, I don't think anyone is quite prepared for it. If we were, we'd have to have a permanent suspicious, gloomy outlook on life, not very conducive to progress as a whole.

When I earlier stated that demand creates jobs, not employers, I didn't mean that those of us that assume leadership are unimportant. Don't ever feel wimpy for very long.

Employers, while just a cog in the economy machine, and not really heroes deserving of huge bonuses over labor, are a most important cog, so keep your chin up. God grants the skill of leadership, to serve all humans, like He grants two hands. A man is not expected to get huge bonuses over his brethran, for being lucky enough to have both of them.

I think you will find your mind is at it's most innovative when pressed like this. Perhaps a recent example was a post you made in jest that was not merely good, but brilliant in combining ideas for a new concept, even if it was just in fun. I think this is sort of innovation more likely to happen when ones subconcious is working overtime. Your mind will further open up to solve the problem.

This all seems bad, but where there is lemons, there is the innovative possiblity of making lemonade. If you can find a way, some of the machinery you need will sell at near firesale prices. When you start back up, you can be at the head of the pack. Remember, the need for houses never goes away, and if it hiccups, there is a shortage right after.

Even if you had one of the most efficient operations going, there is always room for improvement. You will need all this when you start back up. Sales prices are not likely to be so good at first. Instead of being discouraged and disgusted, try to direct your thinking to a better future and what you can do to streamline your operation.

Perhaps you can get by with half your original employees. The originals are likely to be not all available when things break loose anyway. I could tell one of my long stories about how I streamlined my little home-building nook, even though I knew I had to quit early on. It took me fifteen years to find a reasonably paying substitute and I never again needed more than two employees, while still in business. I know I often preach socialism, taking care of our fellows, but I know, in the end, that it is a dog-eat-dog world. The fittest survive in dire circumstances. When the going gets tough...

I am reminded of a story.

A couple of buddies, Joe and Mike, were hiking in Yellowstone.
They came upon a sign that read, "Caution, beware of grizzly bears".

Joe sat down and began to replace his hiking boots with track shoes.
Mike asked, "What are you doing? You don't expect to outrun a grizzly bear, do you?".

Joe replied, "I don't have to outrun the bear ...just you".

You are one of the good guys.
I sincerely wish you the very best.
Get your track shoes on.

Wes


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I got laid off this time last year. I got a contract job 2 weeks later that I am still working at. My manager wants to convert me to full time, but the company is also going through layoffs (5500 people). My project is doing well and looks like it is going to be a very long term thing. I also have a years salary in cash sitting in the bank just generating interest. I know I am a lot better off than some others.

I've had 3 close friends get laid off in the last 2 months. One works in HR, another ran a printing press, and the third is a materials research scientist. The company I used to work for is closing the facility I worked at and sending the work to India. The 5 people that survived my layoff last year will be laid off at the end of this month, along with the rest of the staff there.

I have seen a huge problem with this country for a long time, and it involves just about everyone from the lowest paid to the highest paid. Nobody really considers quality or responsibility anymore. The CEOs only look at the bottom line today and don't seem to realise that cutting elements of the customer experience (docs, support, features, quality) lessen the likelihood that you will get a repeat customer. Bonuses for CEOs and others should be tied to customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, and progress on short and long term company goals.

The flip side of that is the workers who 'phone in' their work, and don't actually care that the work they do is shoddy. This is where the model for unions falls down; they expect a basic minimum for job performance and have no incentive to to a better job. This attitude is shared by a lot of non-union workers as well, and it needs to change.

I have a (very) small side business that is a one man operation. This side business involves research, graphic design, and printing. I looked all over the US for a print shop capable of doing the level of work and detail that I wanted, but none of them had the quality I was looking for. My product is now printed at a shop in Italy because, while they are a little difficult to deal with (they don't react well to deadlines), they are also artists at what they do. They make every effort to make sure that the final product is exactly what I want.

As a result of me being ultra-anal about what I produce I have become a bit of a legend in my little niche market. I have more customer requests than I can handle, and I hear that I have taken a chunk out of a couple of my competitors (including a big Japanese one that just does sloppy research - 50 stars on a 1958 American flag!!) .

We are now a throwaway culture - many of our products are crap, and other countries are catching up (or have surpassed us). If this continues to happen our middle class will vanish, and so will the success of this country.

Steve

Steve,

Your ideas are good and the day I started work for the labs and phone companies in 1965 I started putting back money in accounts for my retirement. But so many have waited until now and put nothing back that it is almost impossible for them to save anything with the prices the way they are. I watched one of the over paid financial geniuses the other day telling people that are still working they should put back at least 60% of their pay in case they lose their jobs. With the price of food and the other bills, just how is the average working person going to live and do that?

Ron :confused:

Legend!!!.....in your mind......

Thanks Wes your comments are thoughtful and appreciated.

Scott S

Perhaps, perhaps not. But I routinely get emails (and sometimes calls) from people all over the world looking for info in my little niche market. I had a historical essay I had co-written published in an international car magazine as a feature article. I was also requested to help out on the restoration of the '65 Sebring Yenko Corvette, and a certain SSS Ferrari SWB that I am not allowed to mention by S/N.

I'm not saying that I'm Doug Nye, but I have managed to make a name for myself. So what have you done?:LOL:

Quote: I have managed to make a name for myself.....

Little do you know.....