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Actually they are different, the Ace has a higher nose and more "barrell" to the hood shape. When AC re-did the Ace to use the Greyhound grille inevrted, they reshaped the entire nose. That version became the Cobra with the addition os the wheel lips and other items. |
A couple of comments on the the pictures I could see (on dial up so they didn't all load). From the front shot, it looks like the hinges and horn mounts are Ace and not Cobra. The car is a flat windshield car which Cobras never were and it looks like it still has the Beclawat emblem. From what I saw I would put high probability of it being an Ace with the gas tank filler moved. As for the hood, while the nose was reshaped (different core support and front frame work), I always thought the hoods were interchangeable. Let also remember there were a few Aces made with the cobra nose so this might be a 2.6 version. I'll try again later to download all the pics and see what else I can see, but as others have said, it is all in the chassis#. If the tag is not available on the foot box, check the door hinge plates for the 4 digits.
Jay |
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The Zephyr would be the first AC to use a Ford engine. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/V...ACE_166939.htm |
Boy this is some good stuff! Very few Zephyr's were made, less than 50 I think. From the discourse here I am led to believe: The "Z" was a 'new body design' incorporating not only the new Ford 2.6 engine but a new front clip design, influenced by the Greyhound, with a flatter hood/fender front section? THIS would have then been the 'new' Ace, as opposed to say the Le Mans winning 1959 Ace body style. A subtle differerence, but significant to those of us who love such details. :D
Pictures of the curve of the hood/front clip make it extremely difficult to compare such a subtle change. Angle of camera, lighting, etc. can easily deceive in that regard. I understand the FIRST 'Cobra' was in fact a converted Zephyr, not an older Ace. Kris' comment the older hood would fit "reasonably well" is interesting. If the shape was indeed changed from rounder to more flatter (OK, theres a mouthful) it may well fit 'reasonably well'. |
Seems weird that someone would leave the car in a barn with a card/plate in the rear license rame that says "AC Cobra." It'll be interesting to see if the chassis number surfaces.
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I was able to download the other pics and now see the car has aluminum footboxes. I think the 2.6 cars had black fiberglass versions so I am guessing this is not a 2.6 variant and since there is not a bristol emblem on the trunk its probably an AEX car. As for a value (the original question) its tough to tell without more info like what comes with the car, ie how complete is it. Ace unique parts are more expensive than Cobra parts as there are not as many aftermarket parts available. Pass along the chassis # and a more complete parts listing and I may be able to take a guess at what is fair market for it, as I know of a couple of recent sales that I can compare it against.
Jay |
I must say.... to be involved in such a subject is awesome. You guys know your stuff and to be able to look for such detail. I will get the VIN. FYI, the car runs and drives as we speak. It just has some body issues.
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yel911,
The engine shown is a later vintage than 1963. So either a different engine was first used or the implant was done at a latter date. |
I'm guessing the 'later version' engine id comes mainly from the color of the engine. Which was black until, what, late '65 or into '66, then blue? Other mechanical clues may also exist...
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Actually I think Blue became the official color in '66, I didn't even pay attention to that. It has a PCV that is plumbed into the factory carb spacer and the intake has the original opening cast over. It also has an alternator which is later than the '64 model. The intake casting number appears to be C6 although it could be 8. The cap that the PCV is in is an early 70s and the PCV is at least that new. The top loader, I don't believe was used behind the smallblock until '66. I also notice another small block in the back corner so it may have later been swapped or the top end( doesn't explain the alt.) changed. There is also a VW case on the side of it, apparently a guy after my own heart. |
:LOL: I noticed that VW power plant, gasp, with the way replicas are going these days who knows what you might find under a hood.
I would discount an alternator for clues to an engine year of build because it's so common to see a generator swapped out for one. Now when you see a generator instead of an alternator, then it gets interesting! :D |
Woodz428, the "VW" case is a Porsche case for a 356 that sits beside the garage. That's how this all started!!!! I asked about the 356 and then I find the guy has the AC in the garage.
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You know, I almost guessed a 356, but it's been 25 years since I rebuilt the last one and they look like the later big VW engines. Since the early Porsches were just hot rod VW's I wasn't too far off.:LOL:
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transverse leaf springs in the pictures... interesting for sure
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Well, I spoke to the owner yesterday, again, and he doesn't want to give out the VIN #. He also stated that the car is title as an AC Bristol, so the VIN must be an AC number, not a Cobra number, correct?
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If the car is a Bristol, the S/N should begin with BEX.
The Cobra numbers start with CSX, COX or COB. |
Well. hmm.
A car in this shape would take a serious effort to complete. My Notes; 1. The vintage nardi wheel is an interesting touch. 2. along with the 60's SW guages. 3. Valve covers are vintage 1980s motorsport 4.Coil and alternator are EARLY 1960's ford along with the trans and 2bbl. 5.seats look wide and flat 6.alternator is from 1965 to 1969 7.engine blue is wrong for 1963, looks like rattle can blue from1980's. 8.PCV plate / carb riser is still intact. From this distance I would stay the car was converted (or reconverted) in 1968 or later. the base engine if i had to guess, is a 1968 302. possible it is an earlier motor , but need better pics. it looks like an AC that someone tried to convert. agreed someone was trying to build this out of probably an Ace/bristol. Question > does anyone recognize the hinges on the doors >? |
Yeah, sorry. That's not a Shelby....I'll give you $300 for the whole lot. And $75 for the VW engine.
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Steve,
The door hinges look exactly like the original style hinges I have drawings for. The trunk hinges are completely different though. So, how much is he looking to get out of it? Not that I need another project or anything........ Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what this car might be worth if it is completed to reasonable standards? Bob |
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