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-   -   CSX3016 for sale through Exotic Classics, Syosset NY (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/shelby-american-inc/120043-csx3016-sale-through-exotic-classics-syosset-ny.html)

1ntCobra 01-25-2014 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1282287)
The "other car" is claimed to be the crashed Grossman car that was converted to a stock car using a late 30's Ford body on the 3016 chassis, and later dismantled. It is now said to be in pieces, but retaining the original chassis with the pieced-in right side main frame rail as a result of Grossman's wreck, as well as the numbered front crossmember. Problem is, the current location of this is only known to a small group of people and, thus far, they aren't talking. I would suggest to the person who claims to know about this car and who reads Club Cobra threads: it's time to fish or cut bait.
Yeah, if the "other" car is the real CSX3016, why not publish some pictures of it?

Someone managed to get a few pictures of CSX2287 while it was in hiding. I can't believe that the owner of the "other" CSX3016 car is as nutty as Donna was... :JEKYLHYDE

SunDude 01-25-2014 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1282287)
The "other car" is claimed to be the crashed Grossman car that was converted to a stock car using a late 30's Ford body on the 3016 chassis, and later dismantled. It is now said to be in pieces, but retaining the original chassis with the pieced-in right side main frame rail as a result of Grossman's wreck, as well as the numbered front crossmember. Problem is, the current location of this is only known to a small group of people and, thus far, they aren't talking. I would suggest to the person who claims to know about this car and who reads Club Cobra threads: it's time to fish or cut bait.
Ned, is this the car you mean...? Or is this a different (unidentified) chassis?

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...m_1_Large_.jpg

Nedsel 01-25-2014 02:53 PM
No, that's not it - that car was said to be CSX 3150, but turned out to be a stolen chassis with its correct VIN obliterated.

SunDude 01-25-2014 07:34 PM
UPDATE: As it happens CSX3016 did not sell today at Mecum Kissimmee on a high bid of $1,700,000 USD.

Nedsel 01-25-2014 09:42 PM
That bid was short of the reserve the owners placed on it.

mrmustang 01-26-2014 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunDude (Post 1282347)
UPDATE: As it happens CSX3016 did not sell today at Mecum Kissimmee on a high bid of $1,700,000 USD.
I was not there, but rumor from those that were stated that real bidding stalled around $950,000 %/

OnyxRider 01-26-2014 08:24 AM
What do you think is a ballpark price that this car is worth?

A-Snake 01-26-2014 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxRider (Post 1282377)
What do you think is a ballpark price that this car is worth?
Do you want the guesstimates to include the possible future attorney fees? :p

Nedsel 01-26-2014 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang (Post 1282363)
I was not there, but rumor from those that were stated that real bidding stalled around $950,000 %/
If you read the fine print in most auction companies' policy papers, you will find that they reserve the right to bid on items they are selling "up to, but not beyond" their reserve prices. In other words, the auctioneer has the right to - and will - raise the called price on things without an actual bid being placed by anyone in the audience. Once they get within spitting distance of the reserve price, this practice stops, as it doesn't pay to have a shill bid win the auction. Which is also how one can often determine if the bidding is real or fake: when the auction company pleads with the seller to drop his reserve, the bid is usually genuine. If there is no such activity, chances are there was no real bidding anywhere close to the reserve price.

joyridin' 01-26-2014 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1282382)
If you read the fine print in most auction companies' policy papers, you will find that they reserve the right to bid on items they are selling "up to, but not beyond" their reserve prices. In other words, the auctioneer has the right to - and will - raise the called price on things without an actual bid being placed by anyone in the audience. Once they get within spitting distance of the reserve price, this practice stops, as it doesn't pay to have a shill bid win the auction. Which is also how one can often determine if the bidding is real or fake: when the auction company pleads with the seller to drop his reserve, the bid is usually genuine. If there is no such activity, chances are there was no real bidding anywhere close to the reserve price.
If you watched the B-J auction, was that happening there? I was confused as some cars jumped in price, but then 1 minute later were down $200k. At that point, the reserve was dropped.

This happened quite a few times I noticed. Maybe I wasn't paying attention in years past.

Nedsel 01-26-2014 10:11 AM
99% of the cars at Barrett-Jackson are consigned with no reserve, hence they are going to sell. You may occasionally see the situation where there is simply no real buyer present, and if the consignor thinks he is really going to get burned, he might arrange to buy his own car back, usually through the bidding of a friend. But that costs commissions, so it had better be worth it. At last week's B-J auction, I saw several instances of the auctioneer apparently losing track of where the last few bids had come from, and having to back-track. Sometimes this results in "lost" bids, where either whoever made the bid says no they didn't, or the auctioneer may have, uh, accidentally accepted a bid that he can't identify. So they go back to the point of the last confirmed bid and start the process over again. It's confusing because of the pace they maintain and the unintelligible auction-speak B-J seems to like, where if you can't see a monitor, you have no idea where the bidding actually might be.

OnyxRider 01-26-2014 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1282382)
If you read the fine print in most auction companies' policy papers, you will find that they reserve the right to bid on items they are selling "up to, but not beyond" their reserve prices. In other words, the auctioneer has the right to - and will - raise the called price on things without an actual bid being placed by anyone in the audience. Once they get within spitting distance of the reserve price, this practice stops, as it doesn't pay to have a shill bid win the auction. Which is also how one can often determine if the bidding is real or fake: when the auction company pleads with the seller to drop his reserve, the bid is usually genuine. If there is no such activity, chances are there was no real bidding anywhere close to the reserve price.
Unfortunate but I have seen this many times when watching a B-J auction. They create something artificial and try to get a feeding frenzy of bids going. Just wondering how often it is practiced.

Cobra #3170 01-26-2014 11:14 AM
I would never sell my cars through Barrett-Jackson, too much carnival atmosphere for me.

347stroker 01-26-2014 12:47 PM
I was at Mecum loading cars for transport up to the northeast. I walked by the car several times and as Bill stated the high bid was 1.7 million. As to the provenance of the car I will leave it to those who have far greater knowledge than I. I prefer not to speak around a size twelve! Tom

OnyxRider 01-28-2014 11:28 AM
I got my hands on my old registry that the binding was blown out. I had hundreds of hand written notes in there but nothing on this Cobra from 30 years ago. I was reading the Mecum descript how it was stated it was mistitled as 3106 before being corrected. Not that SAAC is the ultimate say so but a handful of experts should get together and look over the car and documnets if allowed. Probably nothing will be done unless pieces of the original one surface.

RodKnock 01-28-2014 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxRider (Post 1282705)
Not that SAAC is the ultimate say so but a handful of experts should get together and look over the car and documnets if allowed. Probably nothing will be done unless pieces of the original one surface.
SAAC is a "handful of experts." Who else is there?

And I think Ned and the rest of SAAC has likely made the offer to inspect anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1282287)
Problem is, the current location of this is only known to a small group of people and, thus far, they aren't talking. I would suggest to the person who claims to know about this car and who reads Club Cobra threads: it's time to fish or cut bait.

OnyxRider 01-28-2014 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1282706)
SAAC is a "handful of experts." Who else is there?

And I think Ned and the rest of SAAC has likely made the offer to inspect anything.

That's good I didn't know they offered. As I said nothing will be done unless as some say original pieces show up or a "real 3016 emerges.

There are fabricators and experts not associated with SAAC with great knowledge. However I would use what is known at SAAC as a guideline. Things are bad enough but when someone mentioned a 30's Ford things went sideways for me.

RodKnock 01-28-2014 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxRider (Post 1282709)
There are fabricators and experts not associated with SAAC with great knowledge.
Sure, say someone like Mike McCluskey or even the gentleman who finished my Kirkham, Stuart Hall. But SAAC is charged with duty of preserving the history of these cars. Without them, you have anarchy. :p

Ghiblicup 01-28-2014 02:17 PM
Why is no one figuring out a reliable testing procedure for originality? (NO not meaning to fuel another endless originality discussion) I mean today it is highly unlikely to rebuild a car from scratch in finding all the original bits and pieces. So if a car with provable, original, authentic parts do come up, I wouldn't wonder it is more likely to be an genuine Cobra than a recreation or bitsa.
I do doubt that finding pieces and fitting them together could be done still, and this might not have happened in the last ten or fifteen years or so. Also because the web does spread News fast and there s always someone involved who can't keep his moth shut. Even rebuilding a frame to original AC Thames Ditton specs is not an easy thing, if not entirely impossible, as there aren't any real "lying around somewhere".
Why do I Point at this? Because I think we might see one or two cars coming up in the future as values are rising so steeply, making enthusiasts who just enjoyed their stuff for decades for them selves wanting to bring them to the market.
Well, just some thoughts.

Cobra #3170 01-28-2014 02:19 PM
Saac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1282712)
Sure, say someone like Mike McCluskey or even the gentleman who finished my Kirkham, Stuart Hall. But SAAC is charged with duty of preserving the history of these cars. Without them, you have anarchy. :p
Thank God for SAAC, I can only imagine the number of bogus cars with fake history that would be showing up at the prices these things command. They have exposed a number of "air cars" and are doing a great service for people who want to buy a legitimate car.


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