[klayfish]

Turk,
I guess we can go back and forth on this for days, but let me try to address some of your points.

I think you are focusing on the insurance companies even more than I am. Yes, I hope to have an effect on the insurance companies, but that is not the sole basis for this idea. I'll be the first to tell you we will not get a promise from an insurance company. They will look and consider, but I wouldn't ask for a promise. What I have been told is that they DO recognize organized groups and watch their records. That is exactly why there is often a question on applications that asks if you belong to a car club. But the insurance companies is just one issue.

I don't pretend to have any personal clout with your insurance company or even the one I work for. I won't speak for DV, but I'd think he agrees with me on that. The way I see it, it doesn't matter if it is based in Ohio or California. It just has to start somewhere I guess. I would hope the group as A WHOLE will have some clout with insurance companies. Maybe alliances with other groups will help too. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.

Nobody decided anything yet. DV and I were not appointed anything by anyone. I absolutely agree there should be votes and open discussion if a group were to be formed. If you voted for me to be totally banned, then so be it. Whether you believe it or not, I want no personal glory from this. Is it so wrong because DV and I are the ones suggesting the idea? This IS a democracy and if it is going to happen, everyone interested should have equal say.

I don't know who is the most qualified to set it up. I don't claim that I am. I am not a lawyer or know much about forming a group such as this. This is exactly why I'm posting this on these forums. I'm hoping people who know a lot more about it than me can help. I don't know DVs lawyers or what they are doing. I BEG lawyers, politicians or any other person with clout, knowledge or anything at all to offer to help out! Please!

I know nothing about dues or how much, if any, there would be. I hadn't even thought that far ahead yet. This is all new to me. I'd hope we could do something without dues, but I have no clue.

I would not propose any kind of limit on horsepower (hell, I want all the power I can get), any radical safety features on the cars or mandatory schools. I think what we would offer to insurance companies is an organized group who is showing that we are responsible group as a whole.

Yes, insurance companies are businesses.

How would our organization change the type of accidents being seen by insurance? I can't give an honest answer to that for sure. I would hope that as a group, we would all have a low loss rate and that will be attractive to insurance companies. How is the NSRA successful?

I agree that if someone is hellbent on driving their car like a maniac, no group is going to change that. But I do hope that encouraging autox, open track, etc... will reduce the accidents on the streets caused by driving error. As I said before, I know several racers who have said that since they started racing, they have much less urge to drive wildly on the street.

When I said sanctioned events, I didn't mean sanctioned by the Cobra group. What I mean to say was sanctioned by the SCCA, or other established driving schools, drag strips and such. I mean to encourage members of our groups to attend those. I agree with you that a group as small as ours probably would be would not be able to "sanction" their own events. Though I would like to come out to California some day to run with you guys.

Now these are just my personal thoughts, and on the whole, I'll be the first to agree they don't mean anything alone. I again beg of anyone else who can or is willing to help, PLEASE DO!!! I'm just the one proposing the idea. I fully admit I don't know what to exactly do next. I would just like to see something done.

Steve