Roush VS. Ford Racing Engines

[Gburg]

Which would you choose a Roush or Ford Racing powerplant? I have seen Roush crate engines priced twice the going price of Ford Racing crate engines, which offer the same H.P. output. I question paying the Roush price when Ford Racing has the same product for half the $$$$. Most of the Cobra MKIII replicas that I have seen have Ford Racing engines.

Thanks,

Gburg

[Clois Harlan]

Honestly, I wouldn't buy either. I would have George Gessford, Keith Craft, or one of the FORD engine builders build my engine. Get it exactly the way you want it or you will never be happy.


Clois

[CobraEd]

Aside from the Roush Hype, take a look at the quantitative differences. Much of the Roush stuff is cast. rods, crank etc. Ford uses forged pistons, rods, and crank. I can build the hp. All I would want from the engine builder is a solid and bullitproof foundation.

[Gburg]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Aside from the Roush Hype, take a look at the quantitative differences. Much of the Roush stuff is cast. rods, crank etc. Ford uses forged pistons, rods, and crank. I can build the hp. All I would want from the engine builder is a solid and bullitproof foundation.

I am not an engineer. What is the difference between forged and cast engine parts?

Thanks,

Gburg

[CobraEd]

Forged be's more betterer!

[CobraEd]

Forged metal of any type (steel, iron, aluminum) is far more dense and as a result, far stronger. After being cast, it is pressed or squeezed by tons of pressure to compress the lightly bound cast molecules into a denser more solid structure.

[SPF1061]

Hi Gburg -
I am sure there are many other excellent and likely better engine choices out there. I am not going to address that. You asked about two specific motors and I happen to have first hand experience with exactly (and only) those two motors, so here's my .02

First - Cobra Ed - you've got your compnent description just backwards between the Ford and the Roush engines - a typo, I'm sure.

Second - I have owned and run both of these motors - hard. Not abusively - just hard.
My spf originally had a Ford Racing 392 stroker. I put 30,000 hard street and track miles on this engine before I feathered the throttle a little too much for a little too long on the backstretch at Carolina Motorsports Park. The engine went lean, the hyper pistons went into melt down and the engine totally grenaded. Basically my fault - but I would never own another engine with hypereuratic pistons. Ford of course has figured this out as well, and they now put forged pistons in the 392s. The Ford racing motors are built with good (not the best) components in an assembly line fashion by experienced assemblers that I choose to believe take some pride in their work. I think the Ford Racing engines offer great value. BUT, they are definitely built to a price. When the engine was putting out it's max, it always felt like it was doing just that - maxed out.
When I replaced the 392 I was looking for more horsepower and better quality. I looked at lots of options had narrowed it down to Roush, Keith Craft and a custom NASCAR builder in NC. It so happens that my spf dealer had a customer back out on a Roush 427R and my dealer had it sitting on his shop floor and he wanted it gone. He offered me a "good" price and that was that. I do not regret going with the Roush for a moment. There is really NO comparisson between the Roush motors and the Ford Racing motors. The Roush motors are built to be the best they can be and you will pay a premium price. The block is a DART 4 bolt main, siamese bore, 9.5" deck height full on racing block rated to withstand nearly THREE times the horsepower and torque my engine produces. This goes right down the line for every component used in this engine - crank, rods, pistons, timing chain, ratarata. The word is OVER BUILT. This engine produces it's (substantial) rated output power and never comes close to straining to do so. It is SNOOZING while it launches me down the dragstrip in mid 11s on street tires! I get the feeling it can do this for a VERY LONG time, and will eventually die from old age - NOT fatigue or over stress.
...and that's the perspective from the driver's seat of my car.
Happy Motoring!
-Steve
Richmond/VA

[CobraEd]

Absolutely not. Roush uses all cast stuff and hypes the HP. Ford uses all forged.

[Don]

Steve, a little help not having the technical background, what are the pros and cons:

Basically my fault - but I would never own another engine with hypereuratic pistons. Ford of course has figured this out as well, and they now put forged pistons in the 392s.

Is hypereuratic and hyperutectic the same, just a difference in spelling ?

..............thanks

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Absolutely not. Roush uses all cast stuff and hypes the HP. Ford uses all forged.

I have the build sheet on my Roush, and it uses all forged internals. Fully ported aluminum AFR heads, Dart block, Hydraulic roller cam etc... I have been into high dollar performance boats for the past 15 years or so and have dealt with motors costing in the 100k range, and the Roush motor is a deal IMO. They would not give a 2 year 24k warranty on a 562 hp motor if it was not built right. My.02

[Cashburn]

For a 385 series Big Block I would say Ford Racing or private builder.
Currently the only 385 series motor Roush offers is the 588RX.

If you were looking for a small block hands down the Roush is a better motor than Ford Racing and actually compares in price too. Broken in, dyno tested, 2 yr. warranty, and complete from air cleaner to pan, alternator to starter. Nothing has shown up coming close to how nice the Roush motors are. They even come on a $40 or so Engine stand.

Good Luck!!!

[CobraEd]

.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10763

"cast crank & rods" !!!!!

Given that nothing is stated about the pistons, you can bet they are only hyperutetic. . . . again

They do a good job of marketing!!!!

[Gburg]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

For a 385 series Big Block I would say Ford Racing or private builder.
Currently the only 385 series motor Roush offers is the 588RX.

If you were looking for a small block hands down the Roush is a better motor than Ford Racing and actually compares in price too. Broken in, dyno tested, 2 yr. warranty, and complete from air cleaner to pan, alternator to starter. Nothing has shown up coming close to how nice the Roush motors are. They even come on a $40 or so Engine stand.

Good Luck!!!

The Ford Racing motor is not complete, ready to install, then? Alternator, starter, air cleaner and oil pan has to be added before motor install?

Gburg

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Gburg

The Ford Racing motor is not complete, ready to install, then? Alternator, starter, air cleaner and oil pan has to be added before motor install?

Gburg

The Engine Factory, enginefactory.com, offers about as close to a turnkey motor as you can get. They have both a 390FE and 460 motor under the Ford Performance Motors category. Forged pistons. Around $10.5-10.8. I don't know how that compares in price to Ford, but it is significantly less than the Roush and also comes with I believe a 2 year warranty. I haven't used any of their motors but have spoken to some who have and all seemed to be very satisfied with their motors. I'm also not sure how they handle warranty issues, nobody I've spoken with that purchased an EF engine had any warranty issues come up. I believe they're located in PA. Worth an inquiry and they will provide you with customer references.

[Gburg]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

The Engine Factory, enginefactory.com, offers about as close to a turnkey motor as you can get. They have both a 390FE and 460 motor under the Ford Performance Motors category. Forged pistons. Around $10.5-10.8. I don't know how that compares in price to Ford, but it is significantly less than the Roush and also comes with I believe a 2 year warranty. I haven't used any of their motors but have spoken to some who have and all seemed to be very satisfied with their motors. I'm also not sure how they handle warranty issues, nobody I've spoken with that purchased an EF engine had any warranty issues come up. I believe they're located in PA. Worth an inquiry and they will provide you with customer references.

Thanks for the good tip. Just checked-out their website. I will save as a favorite link.

Gburg

[ByronRACE]

Don't forget about John Kaase...

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/

But I still say you should find a local builder. I have about 8-9K in my engine, complete, including fuel injection and supercharger. Yes, I built a lot of it myself...the bolt-together part. All the engine machine work, cnc stuff and such was hired-out. If money is any concern for you at all, I think you can do this far more affordably locally...and develop a support network while you're at it. If I built my engine again and just went single carburetor and naturally aspirated, I could build a 545" NA stroker for under 6K complete I bet.

If money is no concern, then I'd have Kaase build an all aluminum monster, break it in on the dyno, and all...why not.

[Clois Harlan]

Good to here true life experiences.

When I was refering to an engine builder I was thinking of an FE engine. I should have thought it out a little more before I started typing. Good to hear that the Rousch engine is as well made as it is.

Clois

[CobraEd]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10763

Forged crank, Forged rods, forged pistons, ARP bolts, full floating wrist pins!!!!! Facts speak! It simply does not get better than this. Marketing hype on an all cast engine is, . . . . . . . . . MARKETING HYPE!!!

[Cashburn]

CobraEd:
Roush AL motors are Cast internals. And not produced anymore. Jegs must have bought a couple.
Roush R Motors are all Forged.

The only small block that Ford produces with all Forged bottom end is
1. The SHORT BLOCK you listed above
2. M-6007-C392FT/RT 475 HP Assembly.

Rest of Ford Racing motors are
392 430 Hp is only forged pistons.
351 385 Hp is only forged pistons.

All 302 based motors are cast everything.

385 Series motors vary on which one, but none have a forged crank.

Based on this post being in 429/460 talk.
I figured Gburg was looking for a 429/460 based motor?????
And if he was going to buy a short block and build it himself he probably wouldn't be asking about crate engines!?

[TRIG]

http://www.roushperf.com/pdfs/427R.pdf

ROUSH 427R is all forged and a better value than people think given the total package.

trig2275