[gary osborne]

4RE KLR....

Why does this stuff always have to get ugly? Someone asks a perfectly good question. Then a few people try to respond with some information that "might" be helpful. And then the conversation turns to something altogether different and typically unpleasent.

Now, talk about a pot stirrer????? No one from Firefly hi-jacked this thread. The owner of Firefly had no contribution to the thread AT ALL nor anything negitive to say about Buckshot or his ex-partner Dean. Ron simply responded to two issues / questions that he has some personal knowledge about. One was the origin of my and Carmine's pipes because there could be some confusion there. I suppose that was because I said I bought my pipes from Ron Roberts (who at the time was a partner in Buckshot and the designer of the pipes) and I did not know who Dean was. Ron WAS Buckshot for all that I knew. The second response had to do with someone's question regarding if Ron could or would build some pipes for a Hurricane. Ron answered "no" and that he specialized in SPF aftermarket products only (which might be another way of saying Buckshot might be a good source for that since they can customize for any car). How is THAT hi-jacking?

Now you saying that you would never do business with Firefly because of Ron's "hi-jacking" a thread. THAT is laughable assuming you are truthful and actually sold your car six years ago and therefore would have no use for SS Pipes other than making a giant windchime big enough to match your pot stirring capabilities.

No one has said anything negative (that I have read) about Buckshot. Some of us have known Ron a LONG time and were involved in brainstorming with him years ago about creating pipes that would allow the cars to breathe better.....particularly the Bib Blocks. This was long (as in years) before Buckshot was in the picture. (That is not meant to be a slam on Buckshot BTW....just a fact). Ron designed some pipes that would solve a lot of different issues for various driving styles. The design allowing the ability to change mufflers for variable sounds and amount of flow for various performance demands was brillint....and beautiful. The design was years in the making and Craig and Ron had the first two sets of pipes (I believe). However, they were more than some might want to spend so Ron developed a one piece pipe that would allow you to put any one of the three muffler choices in permanently. This eliminated the ability to change back and forth among the mufflers but if driving demands did not change often (I am stricktly a street driver for example), then the one piece pipes provided the performance and sound you were looking for at a considerable savings over the three piece pipes. I had one of the first sets of these one piece pipes (just call me cheap). So when someone asked about Buckshot pipes, I felt I could give some feedback about the quality of the pipes but felt that I should identify specifically what pipes I had on my car...thus the mention of Ron.

As for measuring the value or quality of a company or its products based upon if they build their own stuff or contract it out....that may matter to some but not to me. Most companies today farm out some of their work. Not all parts on a GM car are made by GM. Virtually NONE of the parts on any Cobra are built by the Cobra manufacturer. Shelby and SPF farm the building of their cars out entirely and in part respectively to Hi-Tech in South Africa. What I want in a supplier is someone who understands my need, has a good product that fits it and then will stand behind it. Perhaps both Buckshot and Firefly meet those standards.

The ONE thing I am 100% clear on is that Ron is a first class guy and builds a first class set of pipes at a reasonable cost..... and I won't stand back and allow someone who does not know him OR his products OR his history and has absolutely no vested interest in this issue since he has no car, attack Ron's integrity...THAT is just wrong.

Shame on you, you used to be a 4REKLR 6 years ago