I suppose if one was in the SF Bay area and needed an engine built, the Mitchell brothers, over at the O'Farrell Garage, could handle that job nicely.:cool:

Hmmmm Gives a new meaning to High Riser..............

Brent, if you want to build engines for people i say go for it....but.....if you get 10 orders for 10 engines how long is it going to take you to build all those engines from start to finish ????? plus you have to add on the crateing and phone calls to the shippers and loading time....and you are already running a business that takes up much of your time already....i would say if you cant put together 5 engines and have some in stock and ready to ship then you might make it....for a while....but thats a lot of money to have tied up and sitting on a shelf in the shop.....it sounds like a good idea and it probably is but is it the right idea for you......

Jerry, with all due respect, there are many well-known builders that are just builders and don't do in-house machining. I can think of several right off the top of my head.

To me, qualifying the customer and picking the parts is one of the biggest keys to putting together a nice engine.

Not understanding what you're referring to about business models. Just because I have less overhead? I still have to pay shop liability insurance, credit card merchant fees, etc. I may not have a payroll, but I have some overhead.

I also don't understand what you're referring to about the Cobra. Losing heart in a project 3-4 years ago doesn't really have much to do with my business and building engines now. Sometimes I'm dense and don't pick up on things, so you may have to explain that one to me.

Bob,

I don't think I know of very many shops that just have engines on the floor waiting to be sold. Maybe Roush....

Most of the shops I know and deal with are on a custom order basis. A customer wants an engine, they have to wait several weeks to have it built.

You're very correct in what you were saying about the crating and freight companies. I have to deal a lot with that now, shipping transmissions, international orders, etc. It is indeed a pain in the hindend.

Brent---you are basicly doing something for your own pleasure--You do work in the mechanical eng field that is probably your main anchor for income.

However---you have out sourced your machine work, you have a valve on your time for which you claim you get paid, however you are selling parts much lower than the manufactures want them sold for---you as a wd or jobber should be selling to other shops or customers at a profit, not advertising that your price is lower than Tremec will let you advertise!!!
We have several thousand dollars tied up in inventory on the selves also--it is necessary to do that to have good pricing from the manufacturers and also its necessary to place large orders so the shipping unit cost is lowered. We also work with a broker for shipping and would be glad to pass his contact along as any money saved in shipping is a saving all the way around. To get the best unit cost on shipping an example---we get 8 dart blocks at a time so its a complete pallet load, similar deal on cranks from Callies and Scat ----

Other savings come from buying bearings, etc 100 sets at a time---you can mix and match part numbers so you don't have 100 of this 100 of that etc,

However, I don't believe someone can do the work by outsourcing all the machine work and only assembling the parts.

At lower price levels you're also competing with crate engines. Someone like the big three can tough to come up against price wise.

Let's face it, for the money a factory crate engine is tough to compete against.

People seek out top-builders for the best builds knowing it's gonna cost.

Jerry, on most things I usually sell right at retail price. I try to give Club Cobra members and FE forum members a little break. As for Tremec transmissions, there are no profit in them unless you're an Elite distributor....otherwise if you want to sell them, you have to stay price competitive. I don't care what anyone says, there's no one out there that sells them for Tremec's advertised price. I don't know how many times I've given out a price quote for a complete drivetrain package and then the customer comes back and says someone else was lower. Some items like Quicktime bellhousings have such a high retail price and you don't see anyone selling it at that. Again, you have stay price competitive if you want to move product.

I still don't think I know what you mean by your last statement. Outsourcing machine work isn't something unheard of. For instance, every shop does not have an align hone machine.....or an ultrasonic cleaner....or a crank balancer. I know many shops that farm separate processes out....and I know of several builders that don't have any machining equipment at all. All that means to me is that they may be losing out on some money by machining their own parts. To me, that's not a life or death thing. I make money on the parts and I make money on the labor.

I've really lost track of what all is being said. I think the original question was would the customers be happy with a less expensive, milder engine for their Cobras. :LOL: Somehow, the focus has been totally placed on how cheap I sell TKO 600's....or that I don't do my own machine work.

My intention wasn't to rub anyone the wrong way or to get anyone riled up. I just think I can sell a quality engine (and I have been) at a competitive price.

At today's economy, I don't see a lot of people dropping a lot of money on frivilous toys. However, even without advertising, I've been doing a few engines lately along with the normal influx of transmissions, rearends, etc. I'd like to shift a little bit of the work from the drivetrain side to the engine side.

I think there is a market for quality, hand built engines that are not full racing engines. Many guys talk about 600 HP big blocks, but in reality they don't run very well in traffic, cost up to and above twenty thousand bucks and must use VP or Sunoco racing gas at $12-14 per gallon. You can kill yourself just as quickly with a 400 HP engine as with a 600+ HP engine. One thing to remember is to stand behind your work. Losing one or more sales because of an unhappy customer will cost more than fixing a problem. Outsourcing your machine work, I think, is wise as long as you can be guaranteed quality and timely work. With the power of the internet, you can either flourish or fail with a good website and customer feedback. Good luck on your endeavor.

keith craft has some very good points.

who are you competing against and what are they doing?

347 cu.in.
450 hp.
400 ft/lbs.
$8995.00

392 cu.in.
475 hp.
495 ft./lbs.
$8800.00

2 examples i found in less than 10 minutes......
both of those would be lots of fun in a Cobra.....
building engines is the easy part....selling them will
be the hard part.

Take another 10 minutes to figure out why that is an apples to coconuts comparison. %/

Brent's taking a lot of heat for trying to bring something to market that appears to be lacking. There's a void between Ford Racing long blocks and Keith Craft completes. The players in that space are not anyone I would want to do business with.

Bob,

Getting 450-475hp (especially with a stroked 351 like the 392 is) is no problem. Even when you talk about the money it would take to get that kind of performance out of the engines that I've listed, it's really not that big of a deal.

The issue with the Ford Racing engines is you pay $8800-8900 for an engine. Then you get it in the car and figure out that it's nowhere near being ready to start and you have to buy $1000-2000 in parts to get it fired, and you still have an engine that's never been broken in or dyno'd.

Ford Racing makes some great parts, but you can't compare a complete ready to drop in, dyno'd, hand-built engine to a half-complete, non-tested, "assembly line" engine.

Hey Brent, I lost track of the whole damn thread, dont feel bad....lol.

Me and you both brother....I think we've talked about everything except for what the post was about.

On the other post I read your list of components and was hoping your price was going to be about $6500, obviously it was not and could not be if you expect to make any money. I think you are offereing an excellent service but with warranty work and headaches, there are easier ways to make money!! Do it as a hobby and have fun or sell them for $6500.

I appreciate your thoughts, but $6500 on an all brand new engine, ready to drop in and start isn't really feasible. I could probably get there without all the accessories and added pluses, but a lot of people spoke out that they would like to see something ready to drop in and start without any hassle....so that's what I proposed.

I think I'm in line with any competitive prices though. The Engine Factory is at $7999, but with used parts and no dyno testing.

Brent, consider adding a link, prominently displayed on your web site, titled "Everything You Need to Know About Buying Your Engine and Why You Should Buy it From Me" and have it linked to a YouTube video of you teaching our audience exactly that. You could bang that out in a couple of days.

Why.....so I could get hundreds of emails saying, "You're competitive on pricing, but you're not making enough money. I'm going to buy a Ford Racing crate engine."

:LOL:

Actually, you may be onto something Patrick....maybe not a video, but a section of the website that outlines what you were talking about.

I like the fact you are a mechanical engineer and that should be highlighted on your website. By the way the reason you became an engineer is because there was no money in building engines!!!!!! LOL

Your target audience is non-motorheads who want a plug-and-play solution. Focus all your marketing material, website info, etc. at that market and answering the questions this audience would have in buying an engine. Do it up right with a nice web site and you'll be on your way.