Cobra vs Today's Cars

[zzmac]

A lot of you guys have experience with racing your cobras. What's a list of today's hot cars (stock domestic & import) that a 500 HP cobra would beat in a race (assuming drivers were the same and no 1/4 miles)?

[Tim Brewer]

All...................

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Tim Brewer

All...................

You'd be in for a surprise.

[John Seagraves]

All----------------------------

[undy]

My 600+ hp Cobra would get totally destroyed on a track event (HPDE) by my 509 rwhp 07 Z06, driven by the same "skilled" driver. 40 plus years of technology has improved the breed. There are some here that drive Hondas as their daily driver that might argue the point though, thinking all other new cars perform similarly..


To those that can pop a sub-7.40 Nurburgring time with their Cobra, I will humbly retract my previous statement.

Dave

[Bailey]

The answer depends absolutely on which Cobra, how it is prepped, and which street car.
Just like you cannot compare a C4 to a C6 Vette.
There are some very good cars in current production, and some really poorly designed replicas.

[WildBill3]

You may both have been novices but you clearly out drove him...

[zzmac]

Let's say the cobra is a Superformance, Roush 402/427, with upgraded brakes and track tires and we'll give the following cars track tires too. Nissan GT-R, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Corvette, BMW. Would the cobra beat any of these and if so which ones (Pick the top model of each car you'd think it would beat.)

[CobraDan]

Pagani Zonda Roadster FC127 650HP

SSC Ultimate Aero 1046HP

Leblanc Mirabeau 700HP

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 750HP

Koenigsegg CCR 806HP

Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren 626HP

Porsche Carrera GT 612HP

[car4jim]

The show "Top Gear" keeps a list of all the cars they have featured/raced and the track times each one achieved using their closed course and driver. I'm not sure if they have ever featured the Cobra and the associated track time. This might be another source to answer this question. Well...I just checked their web site and they do not appear to have run a Cobra. The link to their list is included below. I guess someone could speculate when an original car (or your car) falls in the pecking-order.

http://www.topgear.com/us/assets/tracktimes.html

[Tim Brewer]

Oh, I missed the part about "no 1/4 miles". I would say then that the Cobra wouldn't fair as well against cars like the ZR1 or even a Zo6. The Cobra would struggle against most any sport car with even less HP.

[cobrarob]

I am surprised that in this thread no one has mentioned how the cobra stacks up against the FORD GT , or is the FORD GT considered old now a days

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by cobrarob

I am surprised that in this thread no one has mentioned how the cobra stacks up against the FORD GT , or is the FORD GT considered old now a days

There is really no comparison.

[cobrarob]

Sal

By the looks of all the cobras you have had and sold and with your comment can I assume you now have a FORD GT

Rob

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by cobrarob

Sal

By the looks of all the cobras you have had and sold and with your comment can I assume you now have a FORD GT

Rob

Haha, no. I WISH I had a Ford GT. But I've tuned and built enough of them to make the statement that unless you've got a purpose built maximum performance Cobra, you ain't touching a Ford GT in any respect, especially if it's got a few bolt ons.

[vettestr]

Thanks Tommy,
Thanks for your thoughts. When the Cobra was running Vettes back in the day they had the same weight advantage. The 800 pound difference between your car and the Z06 was a today remains about the same I would guess. That 800 pounds equates to, what a 25 percent horsepower advantage. Changes 8 pounds per horse to only 6 pounds per horse. Said a bit different 400 horse needs to be 533 horsepower to carry an extra 800 LBS

The tire difference between track rubber and street rubber would actually let you put some of the power to the ground. The suspension on your Car I am again betting is the latest greatest stuff available for a C4. The bigger asset would be having sorted the car out and your comfort/experience.

[zrayr]

great comments & comparison.


Z. Ray

[Tom Kirkham]

Evan,

Thank you. I love your comparison.

Which of the two cars do you find easier to live with? i.e. backing up, maintenance, cruising, etc.?

Interestingly Iron Man crushed one of our cars...

[Cobra #3170]

Just an opinion,

New cars are clearly superior to original Cobras as well as 99.9 % of the replicas. The Cobra suffers from a short wheel base, narrow track width, poor torsional rigidity, terrible suspension geometry, bad aero and most important of all, tires and wheels that are absolutely no match for modern 18-20" wheels and wide tires. I have owned a 2002 Z06, a 2005 Viper and now a Ford GT. All of these cars would destroy my Cobra when it was new in 1965 under any conditions. The biggest short fall is in the tire department. Any 15 or 16" diameter tire that will fit on a Cobra including full racing slicks is inferior to the new wide radial 18-20" street tires available on new cars. Unfortunately, the new tires require good suspension geometry to work properly and the Cobra’s (most) do not have that because of packaging limitations. The Cobra is also very difficult to drive because of the short wheel base, high power to weight and narrow track so an equal driver in a modern car will be faster. Other factors like power brakes, power steering, ABS, traction control and active suspension are additional disadvantages.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

The Cobra suffers from a short wheel base, narrow track width, poor torsional rigidity, terrible suspension geometry, bad aero and most important of all, tires and wheels that are absolutely no match for modern 18-20" wheels and wide tires.

Bruce - Please expand on these issues, like poor handling, with data, graphs, etc. You have far more experience than me, but from what I see and hear, a properly set up original spec Cobra is no slouch. The wheelbase is almost the same as a modern Porsche, so that alone isn't that big a handicap. The biggest issue I understand with the Cobra's suspension is excessive rear toe steer, which can be minimized to a tolerable level. Vintage type tires that will fit a Cobra are slightly narrower than some modern supercars, but if you look at the unit tire loading the Cobra is still actually superior. Here's another bit of comparison:

Lap times at some race tracks also don't support the Cobra as being so bad. Here are some recent lap times from Road America:

Car Lap time (min, sec)
CSX4000 Cobra 2:24
'74 Porsche 911RSR 2:27
'98 Porsche GT3 Cup 2:30
'97 Panoz GTS 2:30.9
'96 Porsche 993RSR 2:34.9
'65 Corvette roadster 2:26.7
'66 GT350 2:31.9

I believe Bill Murray was doing about 2:23 with CSX3032, which is probably the closest you will find to how Shelby American would have prepped these cars for a works effort back in the 60's.

For comparison, here's Road America lap info I found on the web on some newer cars:

"I was at Road America too this past weekend; thankfully, Sunday's weather made up for Saturday's rain and sleet.

This was my first real time on a race track. My Z06 is stock except for Hawk Blue's, Motul brake fluid, lowered 5 turns, and a street alignment. I did a best of 2:52 and am happy with that since I was hoping to break 3:00 (..I was in the Novice class in Torch Red).

Anyway, I let my buddy drive my car who does 2:34's in his 265 rwhp Porsche 928 Euro (..the sweetest sounding car the entire weekend), and we went out in the 'A' class. Anyway, the black GT3 zipped by us after Turn 5 and we gave chase, but the GT3 slowly pulled away, and after two laps he was out of sight. I was impressed how fast it was down the straights, and impressed too we were able to hang with him as long as we did. During the session, my buddy's wife clocked us at 2:42; not too bad for someone driving a car he never took around a track before.

So I'm guessing based upon our 2:42's with the GT3 that you guys must have been slightly faster doing high-2:40's/low-2:41's; is that close?"

I've also seen lap times of what Bill Murray can do in CSX3032 at Watkins Glen and I think it's notable better than a Z06. I'm not saying the Cobra is perfect, but I bet if you tasked McLaren's race shop to prep an original Cobra for vintage racing and specified they retain most of the major original components, I bet it would smoke just about anything off the showroom floor on a smooth track, short of something like a McLaren F1 or the like. The power to weight advantage is just so superior its hard to make up for with subtle improvements here and there.