Engine Assembler vs. Engine Builders

[TButtrick]

I've often expressed this in the past but there is a HUGE difference between a company who claims to "assemble" an engine and those who "build" an engine.

I recently hauled a 331W srtoker from an FFR build to replace the 331w with a 347w. The previous owner proclaimed a "slight vibration" between 2000-3000 rpm to which I confirmed. I was pretty curious to see if there was anything obvious as to to what may have been the cause of the vibration. Upon disassembly of the engine, I noticed two things..

One; when I removed the clutch, the clutch to flywheel bolts had been shimmed with a washer as well as a lock washer. You'll also notice, in the below pictures, that that the bolt isn't threaded in full. No problem, the builder just added added a washer and all is well. You may also notice that even with lock washer and additional spacer washer, that it's STILL not enough to take up the torque needed to secure the clutch.





OK, problem two...

Next, after I removed the clutch, I went to remove the six flywheel bolts to crank, and much to my surprise, the flywheel FELL OFF the crank. Normally, the flywheel would take a couple of rubber mallet whacks to remove it from the crank.

Upon closer inspection, I noticed that the flywheel had been "hogged out" to make it fit over the crank flange. The only thing keeping it centered on the crank was the.. uhhhhhh... nothing? Take a look at the inside of the flywheel center.. It looks as though it were hammered and chiseled to make it fit!!



Bottom line?... get an engine builder to build your engine, not an engine assembler.

[PatBuckley]

I don't think the engine you just took apart was assembled by an engine assembler - it was put together by a butcher - big difference.

In fact I have seen some pretty bad examples of engines built by alleged "builders".

[RET_COP]

WOW, terrible, ok so that was the clutch, a terrible clutch assembler for sure, what about the engine!!!??

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by PatBuckley

I don't think the engine you just took apart was assembled by an engine assembler - it was put together by a butcher - big difference.

In fact I have seen some pretty bad examples of engines built by alleged "builders".

Besides that, this person did not have a clue! I too have had experience with engines built with clueless engine builders.The very reason why I do all my own work.

[*13*]

Do we know who assembled it?

[Cashburn]

Did the PO cut costs by installing his own clutch and flywheel? That's the likely culprit. There's a group that makes all decisions based on perceived costs alone... he could have been a member.

[aks801]

Assembler v. Builder? I profess to be neither, that's why I won't do it. I'm sure you were referring more to those who do it professionally, but once I have "gathered" some of the components I'll want to use, along with a clear idea of what I want the engine to do for me, I'll turn it over to (hopefully) a thoroughly competent pro.

[portmax]

this is the kind of work that injures people, the old phrase you get what you pay for is not always true

[Gunner]

I agree 100% with your notion about assemblers vs builders, but this problem is somewhere else entirely. The original builder probably had nothing to do with this flywheel and clutch. Like others in the thread, I'd suspect a good ol' home mechanic in a hurry to get his shiny new engine in his shiny car, and these-here old porch bolts are good enough. That's neither assembler nor builder (nor an engine issue)... it's just a crappy and not very bright mechanic.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I agree 100% with your notion about assemblers vs builders, but this problem is somewhere else entirely. The original builder probably had nothing to do with this flywheel and clutch. Like others in the thread, I'd suspect a good ol' home mechanic in a hurry to get his shiny new engine in his shiny car, and these-here old porch bolts are good enough. That's neither assembler nor builder (nor an engine issue)... it's just a crappy and not very bright mechanic.

No. I know the previous owner well and unfortunately know the assembler all too well. I confirmed that the entire engine, flywheel, clutch, bell housing was assembled by this "builder". You can see their signature blue stripe on the flywheel. They paint a stripe across the flywheel and crank once assembled for orientation which is completely idiotic as the flywheel can only go on the crank one way. If the owner hogged out the flywheel, the blue paint would be gone from the center.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by TButtrick

No. I know the previous owner well and unfortunately know the assembler all too well. I confirmed that the entire engine, flywheel, clutch, bell housing was assembled by this "builder". You can see their signature blue stripe on the flywheel. They paint a stripe across the flywheel and crank once assembled for orientation which is completely idiotic as the flywheel can only go on the crank one way. If the owner hogged out the flywheel, the blue paint would be gone from the center.

In that case it would we good to know who the assembler was... that's total bullchit.

[Ron61]

That is bad and hard to believe that any person that works on engines would do something like that. Now you know why I limit my engine work to changing plugs and oil.

Ron

[*13*]

Someone said it right, The Builder "just doesn't care". This is seriously dangerous work. The driver of this car could, for all the builder knows, have his legs right next to the engine & clutch assembly w/o any major protection. If something like this fails it could cause serious injury. Someone like this should be assembling toys for MikeyD's kiddy menus.

[Jamo]

unbelievable

[Gaz64]

Should the finger be pointed at who balanced the engine as well?

My engine balancer gets everything including pressure plate bolts.

[RICK LAKE]

T Buttrick T I am both and have been for a long time. What you see is Rube Goldberg or Mickey Mouse work. You did fine the vibration for this motor to say the least. Is the bolt stretched? The picture give the look of this. I think what you really left out was PRIDE of WORKMANSHIP. Using the top fasteners like ARP. Taking your time, measuring 2-3 times, test fitting 3-5 times before installing for the last time. Removal of shape edges and rough ones. Craftmanship, we have some of the best assembler and builders on the forum, we have a couple of clunkers too like in any bussiness. Those don't look like ARP bolts. As far as the flywheel opening it looks like a high speed grinder was used to make this flywheel fit on the crank end. You would think that people like this would become better at there performance ability of building a better motor. Some do and some just want the money and don't care. The only way I see to remove them from building motors is to bring them into the light. Their story should be interesting to say the least. Over time they should also be out of bussiness. The other issue is we have short term memories and beleive in giving second, third, fourth, and so on chances to redeam themselves and it doesn't work for a couple. Worst part is they have families and are most times the main bread winner of the house. I do both, and try to help othersbeome better at this craft. Rick L.

[blykins]

Anyone can get a bunch of parts and bolt them together.

It takes someone that knows what they're doing to coordinate camshafts, cylinder head specs, know what needs clearanced and where, know what to check, have the right tools, etc.

There is also a difference between a machinist and an engine builder. I don't do any of my own machining, but have a machinist that I work very closely with. I know how he does his work and he knows mine. I check my mics against his regularly. He also follows my instructions to the letter.

I don't turn out a lot of engines for a reason....I worry about each and every one. I can't afford a heart attack at 32...

I also don't sell an engine without a dyno session just so I know that the engine was right before it went in the car.

And I never use flat tappet cams.

[TButtrick]

I started ripping down the engine further today and much to my dismay, I found more problems. When I went to remove the rockers, I had to take a breaker bar to remove the bolts on the pedestal rockers. Two of the pedestals were cracked and all had severe wear on the skirts of the pedestals were they interfered with the rockers. The valve stems have all been destroyed. This engine actually ran when I took it out but only a matter of time before it grenaded.

[Gunner]

The builder's name must be Fred Flintstone. This is below sloppy, uncaring, etc. and down into "no effing idea what he was doing." It will probably turn out that he let some 16yo do the assembly while he "supervised."

[Cashburn]

Is this "assembler" a big advertiser on that other site?