Complete Domination?

[Gunner]

I recall FFR being such a low-end production that even Curt Scott, who has trouble saying a bad word about any car, was pretty harsh on them in the third edition of his Cobra buyer's guide. They long had a reputation as junk - a third-rate body on a fourth-rate chassis populated with tired Mustang donor parts, not exactly the pinnacle of engineering compared to pulling systems from Jags and BMWs.

FFRs can also be built as complete junk, with solid rear axles that may as well be welded to the frame, donor suspension with abysmal angles and response, etc. Even the most hardcore FFR fan knows there are cars out there that just embarrass even the least discerning Cobra fan.

So, to a large extent, FFR earned their cheesy reputation, and some good number of their buyers help keep it low.

HOWEVER - FFR has clearly come up in the world and keeps working on making their product better, which is more than you can say for most kit and replica makers - the ones who fold the first time someone complains or they run out of welding rod or their brother the 'glass man gets another nickel in the slammer.

I wouldn't buy an FFR; I just don't care for their chassis engineering. I don't feel like I have much in common with the crowd that builds them as straight-line racers. I have even less connection to the crowd that seems to care less about their Cobra heritage than that they're easy to build into autocross monsters. But as a budget-level Cobra platform, I know they can be built into very fine machines, and - as I said - FFR has been consistent with their improvements and support. Power to 'em, and power to everyone who puts the sweat into building their FFR well. If they keep that up, and discourage/de-engineer the crappy end of the build options, they'll shed the last of the poor rep eventually.

[Snakebit]

You get what you pay for. You can put a prom dress on a pig, looks good, but there still is a pig under the dress. Just like taking a Cobra kit and bolting on a bunch of used Mustang parts.

[ICBomber90]

Originally Posted by Snakebit

You get what you pay for. You can put a prom dress on a pig, looks good, but there still is a pig under the dress. Just like taking a Cobra kit and bolting on a bunch of used Mustang parts.

Still can't get over the less expensive FFR will spank your ERA. Shame on you.

[ENTDOC]

I like FFR cars, and all the folks I know who have them are great, but the site can get a little RA RA for me. What I have noticed over the years is that a large contingent at the FFR site have become the folks that they complained about years ago,sort of reverse snobism. the car has improved dramatically over the years though, that is a fact.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

I like FFR cars, and all the folks I know who have them are great, but the site can get a little RA RA for me. What I have noticed over the years is that a large contingent at the FFR site have become the folks that they complained about years ago,sort of reverse snobism. the car has improved dramatically over the years though, that is a fact.

I can attest the reverse snobbery in the distant past (not now), when I sold my first FFR and bought a beautiful Contemporary it was like night and day. It was like a light switch, the change in attitude by the FFR owners I hung out with was amazing, it was like I ran over their dog or something. Thankfully those snob style owners of the past are long gone (sold their cars, bought nice 4 dr sedate sedans and faded into the woodwork), these days, all of us could care less what brand of cobra replica we own, at least the guys I hang with at the monthly breakfast and local shows. Sure there will always be one or two in the crowd who feel "their car" is better than everyone else's (I do know one local Lone Star owner like that who looks down at every other manufacturer, including a certain black AC MK IV) because it is not what they chose for themselves, but they are not the norm. As for myself, I'm slowly working my way up to a Kirkham, one step up anddown the replica evolutionary trail at a time


Bill S.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I don't feel like I have much in common with the crowd that builds them as straight-line racers. I have even less connection to the crowd that seems to care less about their Cobra heritage than that they're easy to build into autocross monsters.

Do you guys have an "FFR only" table at your NorCal breakfast meetings?

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Do you guys have an "FFR only" table at your NorCal breakfast meetings?

Dunno, I've only made it to one.

I don't snub anybody with a Cobra - but the ones who own them and built them and maintain them and drive them because of their magnificent heritage are the ones I hang around with.

Some of the builds, like FFR, are great lightweight drag platforms. Some are great "tweakable" race car platforms for the grind of serious autocross. I rarely hear from anyone who's built a Cobra for either purpose that much cares about the heritage and history. Power to 'em, but we don't have much to talk about.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Do you guys have an "FFR only" table at your NorCal breakfast meetings?

Now I know why you BACC guys put me over at that corner table near the bathroom that sits only one. It's the BACC "FFR only" table.

Makes sense to me now, but why do you guys want me sitting over there when I own a Kirkham?

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Now I know why you BACC guys put me over at that corner table near the bathroom that sits only one. It's the BACC "FFR only" table.

Makes sense to me now, but why do you guys want me sitting over there when I own a Kirkham?

You weren't supposed to be sitting there. That table has a little placard that says "reserved for Larry Ellison." He never shows up for breakfast though.

[Cobra Lite]

Thanks all, for some well worded response.

I have not been interested in building a car for more than the past few years (sailing was my life) so I am not familiar with the early versions of the FFR cars. When I started looking into building something they had just released the Mark III version of the roadster and it looked very well done.

I too am not all that keen on the frame. Better than original I am sure, but it could be so MUCH better, but then it would not look original. That appeals to some I know.

The single donor idea is/was very good even though it did force many compromises in dimensions, ride, and handling. It did allow many to build a car that looks good and is fun to drive though.

Good point made, autocross is not life!
For me, neither is 1/4 mile time/speed. (of course not, in a Miata????)

I did not mean to imply that everyone who builds a car for less money is smarter.
But the person who DOES build a superior car for less money is much smarter in my book. But that can be any replica kit.

I do agree that a really good looking car costs time and money and the better the kit you start with, the easier it is to end up with something to be proud of.
A Kirkham is the best start I believe

I am glad that others are aware of the improvements FFR has made in their offerings and I applaud their goal to continue to make it affordable so that more can enjoy building one. I really like the new Mk4 body shape too. Although as I look at hundreds of original cobra photos, there seems to be quite a lot of variation even among the same model. Which is understandable considering they were all hand formed and most have been repaired several times which is likely to change the looks somewhat.

Thanks again for the input everyone

[rodneym]

What the ???????

We can't be nice so soon in this thread.
There's still hours left in this work week!



rodneym

[ICBomber90]

Best part?

Jesper's Mark III just sold for $40,000 on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

0-60 in 3.85 seconds, 60-0 in 116 feet

Pretty fast for a "pig in a prom dress"



I'll kiss that pig any day!

Pat

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Cobra Lite

Although as I look at hundreds of original cobra photos, there seems to be quite a lot of variation even among the same model. Which is understandable considering they were all hand formed and most have been repaired several times which is likely to change the looks somewhat.

Cobras were originally "meant to be bent."

[kobrabytes]

Originally Posted by Cobra Lite

But the person who DOES build a superior car for less money is much smarter in my book. But that can be any replica kit.

Interesting statement... I didn't buy/build a replica Cobra, I bought a Kirkham. I bought it specifically because it was a Kirkham. I bought it because of who Dave, Tom, Mary, Joe, Sandwich, Jerime(s) are. When I first a took a tour of the factory I was stunned by seeing a completely engineered machine before my eyes, a Kirkham is art. Everything about the process was first class, and continues to be. I've NEVER based decisions upon money. I base them on the product or experience. People who base it upon the money typically pay twice and then double.

[Nope It's Fake]

My fake is more fake than your fake - nyah!

(Apologies to Evan)

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

You weren't supposed to be sitting there. That table has a little placard that says "reserved for Larry Ellison." He never shows up for breakfast though.

He's a little busy right now with this obscure little sailing contest off the coast of Spain.

http://www.americascup.com/en/index.php

Rodney, I tried giving Cobra Lite a hard time about the Miata, but alas, I'm too nice a guy and I like Miatas.