K&N top filter problems FYI

[ratdog]

It was pushing so much air from the hood scoop that the top of the K&N filter that had the red oil, most of the oil was gone around the center of the filter.
anyway car running great again and it will not be the last time I try something and flushed money down the drain.

[rodneym]

Purdy, Chas.

The only thing you need are some magnesium wheels.

My bad. I forgot that the sanding sound I hear is you cleaning your mags.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Purdy, Chas.

The only thing you need are some magnesium wheels.

My bad. I forgot that the sanding sound I hear is you cleaning your mags.

SPEAKING OF WHICH...what's this week's latest silence--er-WORD?? Reply in your Hali thread-don't wanna get yelled at...

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by ratdog

It was pushing so much air from the hood scoop that the top of the K&N filter that had the red oil, most of the oil was gone around the center of the filter.
anyway car running great again and it will not be the last time I try something and flushed money down the drain.

I would suggest that the reason for the 'red oil' being absent from the center of the filter top was due to the 'stand off' fuel being too close to the filter top & literally washing the 'red oil' out of the filter top, which brings me back to the instance that Ant also brought up, getting too close to the bowl vent tubes...... feel free to try & prove us wrong, make up a simple tray with foam like Chas setup that seals against the hood/scoop,& ensure that there is at least 1/2" to 3/4" from bowl vent tubes to filter top ( a simple ring of 3/4" square draft seal rubber between main filter & base will accomplish that ). I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the result, I know I was, only other question I have with your car was that 55 mph you mentioned, is that a misprint?, most of the ones I work with have a '1' in front of the '55'....

[ratdog]

Vent tubes on carb had to be cut so the filter top would fit, I don't have them to close to filter top.

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by ratdog

Vent tubes on carb had to be cut so the filter top would fit, I don't have them to close to filter top.

So now we are getting to the real picture. If you had to trim the the vent tubes to fit the filter top originally, then the filter top being approx 1/2" thicker than your original air cleaner lid must be very close to the top of the choke horn also, if thats the case then the filter top 'will' be inducing a restriction & change of flow & pressure as the carb 'see's' it. Remember if you create a restriction at that point the signal to the venturis is increased, drawing in more fuel.( A bit like pulling the choke on partially ).

Now is the carb to hood distance that small that you have to run this current main airfilter height, or could you simply fit a longer air cleaner stud & element or possibly trim a bit more out from the hood under the scoop to allow the taller element etc.

In relation to some of the other posts, have you ever had a hard look at a Daytona Coupe carb air inlet??

[mreid]

Sounds like it would be worth sealing the air cleaner to the scoop and seeing if that makes a big difference. Why did you go with the filter top to begin with? Were you experiencing too little induction air at higher engine speeds?

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by mreid

Sounds like it would be worth sealing the air cleaner to the scoop and seeing if that makes a big difference.

I'v considered this. But when I look at it, I can't see trying to feed that big engine at 6,500 rpm's through that one little hole.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

I'v considered this. But when I look at it, I can't see trying to feed that big engine at 6,500 rpm's through that one little hole.

I feed the same displacement as you do through that 'little hole'. Feeds two carbs to 6800 just fine. Can you make a tray for your efi stacks?

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I feed the same displacement as you do through that 'little hole'. Feeds two carbs to 6800 just fine. Can you make a tray for your efi stacks?

Sure. Making the tray is easy. Making a box that seals to the hood is easy, too.

The hood scoop opening is about 16.5 square inches.

The 8 stacks have a opening of about 25 square inches.

The hood scoop is 66% of the stacks.

I'm not an aerodynamic or airflow expert by any long stretch of the imagination. But I look at the scoop, the stacks, and the numbers, and I don't like to comparison.

But, that's not to say I have not considered this. Making the aluminum or fiberglass box and sealing it to the hood is pretty simple. Then, run one or two ducts to the front of the car for additional cold air.

Easy to build. But I'm not sure it would make much of a differance. Might not be worth the expense, time, and weight.

[JBCOBRA]

There are advantages and disadvantages to sealing the hood/carb(s)
Sealed will net higher performance. The downside is after driving and turning off the car, when you go to re-fire after sitting for say 10 minutes to an hour, the vapor lock factor took over as the heat could not escape the engine compartment without opening the hood.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by JBCOBRA

The downside is after driving and turning off the car, when you go to re-fire after sitting for say 10 minutes to an hour, the vapor lock factor took over as the heat could not escape the engine compartment without opening the hood.

-hence the electric pump feeding the mechanical...

[JBCOBRA]

Hi chas
I should get one of those and seal my carb back up.
Rain would be interesting though

[ERA Chas]

Although not an everyday occurrence, I never had a rain problem. Rain causes lots more problems than stalling-like zero visibility, traction and discomfort...And I just generally avoid rain or sit it out and be safe.
Electric pumps are valuable to avoid battery-killing extended cranking when cold starting after a long period too.

[JBCOBRA]

Every year the wife and drive to Watkins Glen and back for the Vintage Grand Prix in September. It is about 300 miles each way through the mountains. I have encountered almost every kind of weather. It is truely an adventure in motoring LOL Although my experiences in bad weather doesn't even scratch the surface compared to Jim Kellogg! LOL
On one of these trips I realized that hood scoops don't do sqwat except let air out unless they sealed.
We were running through a downpour, and thought maybe I should stuff something in the hoodscoop to keep water out of the carb. I opened to hood and Voila' the engine and air cleaner are totally dry.

You can see us in the beginning of this video. No idea who took it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdO8Dy7_iQ

[ERA Chas]

Ed-the guy runs 10 sec 1/4 miles. He knows what a carb does.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Ed-the guy runs 10 sec 1/4 miles. He knows what a carb does.

Then why did he say it can be set for cruising economy OR power???? He said it, not me.

What he said is incorrect. There ARE two mixture circuits an a carb and you can set the idle/low speed circuit for good cruising economy and jet the mains for strong WOT power. He said you could have one or the other as per his quote.


.

[YerDugliness]

I've kept a good eye on this thread b/c I recently replaced the cheap Mr. Gasket air cleaner assembly on my replica with a 9" K&N X-Stream assembly. My only problem so far has been getting adequate hood clearance...for that I had to "abandon" the very nicely radiused base that came with the K&N and use the one from the Mr. Gasket. I ground it down to the point that it stands only about 1/4" above the carb air cleaner mount and I have about 1/4" of clearance now. I chose the X-Stream assembly b/c it seemed to promise greater filter area if not greater filter operation. I have mentioned that with only 1/4" of clearance above the X-Stream's filter top, I'm not sure how much contribution the assembly provides from the top.

Next mechanical improvement to the Cobra includes a repalcement of the current Edelbrock Performer/Edelbrock Thunder combo for an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap intake and a Quick-Fuel carb....which will absolutely, I'm sure, bring about a scramble for adequate hood clearance again. I already know the Air-Gap sits taller than the Performer, so unless the Q-F is "shorter" than the Edelbrock, I'll be considering alternatives to improve hood clearance again.

I'd like to gain enough hood clearance to retain the current 3" K&N filter AND be able to use the nicely radiused carb base that came with the K&N. I'm told that using Mustang covertible engine/transmission mounts will lower the engine by 3/4", and if that isn't enough I can always have the carb pad on the Air-Gap milled off a bit, perhaps as much as 1/2" or so.

I can't say whether the X-Stream assembly works better than the old Mr. Gasket assembly or not, but I can't imagine that it would work worse, and once I get adequate hood clearance I might just add a taller side element to gain more filtration area.

Cheers from Dugly

[sllib]

I read on the internet about a study done by Corvette owners with the same problem. One of the guys there attached a curved piece of sheet metal to the front of his air cleaner assy. to block the air flow from the front of the car. He experimented with duct tape and cardboard until he got the size right and he got much better airflow at speed.
Bill Stradtner

[Don]

Not sure whether I asked the question correctly ?

Question:

" When using the air filter top in place of the metal top, is it possible the carb & timing will need to be adjusted due to the additional air, as opposed to air entering only from the sides "

Reply:

" You will not need to adjust your carb just by having an X-stream top on the assembly. Keep in mind, the vehicle will not get more air; it will be able to pull air from directly above eliminating turbulence created above the barrel resulting in better performance. If you have any further questions, please contact Customer Support at 800-858-3333. "

Thanks for writing,

Richard Wotring
Product Specialist
800-858-3333
RichardW@KNFilters.com