Uhhh, maybe they, like, crossed their fingers behind their backs while they were doing the work. I think they cut you a lot of slack at that ranch -- maybe it's a loophole, or something, too....%/

Hopefully it's 'rare'.

And it's their (Shelby's) 50th anniversary year too. And Mr. Shelby passed.

You would think that of all years to finish off a nice 289 car for "the public" to see ASAP at shows or whatnot, this would be THE YEAR.

Somebody in the marketing department should be fired.

Living near Tesla, you hear about the devotion to the customer. And they're a small manufacturer.

Tesla Keeps Roadster Owner Happy, Rebuilds Car Before Warranty Ends

My anti-dive belt was a bit on the tight side...found out the first time I braked hard.

Damn Provo boys have a sick sense of humor.

Gee, do you think Tesla's PR firm had a hand in this? Just sayin'

BIG NEWS!!!! General Motors replaces loose radio tuning knob on Chevrolet Volt! Owner amazed! "Gee, I really didn't think they would stand behind the warranty" said owner Alfred E. Oldman. "I mean, isn't that just a marketing ploy?" Oldman asked the reporter from The Onion. Oldman proceeded to remark "It only took three weeks and four regional executives to sign off and here I am with a brand new knob on my radio. I mean, now I can get Rush without having to use the buttons or search feature. I guess Government Motors really is for the people."

I was thinking the same thing (yes, I know where you are going with this) .

Of course I'd be curious as to exactly what the OP's issues are with his car. Curious that he has not listed them in the thread that he started.


Bill S.

Bill, he did list them a couple times a couple pages back.

Your sarcasm is unwarranted. A dealer commenting on another dealer carries ZERO weight for me. You will always stick up for your brethren.

I live in an area where I PERSONALLY see the Tesla employees rushing out to help owners, when needed. In fact, I have a few neighbors with actual first hand stories of their top notch customer service. Not only with their first car, their Roadster, but the new Sedan too.

I used them as JUST ONE example of great customer service and the OP wrote about a CSX dealer with poor customer service.

Most likely does not want backlash from the dealer.

As for a dealer installing drivetrain, happens all the time they just set up another company one does sales and the brother etc. does installs in the other room under the other company.

And that is still not legal. It is called an "arms length transaction" and does not pass what they call the "sniff test." Do some legal research on "related parties" and "arms length", perhaps one of our resident attorneys would like to comment.

I personally have lost a sale to an operation that does this, God Bless 'em they are welcome to it. I'm too pretty to go to prison!

And as for me sticking up for another dealer, yes if they are doing it right, I will. If they are boning customers or otherwise being bad actors, no way. I know for example that several dealers who post here do a great job of proper customer service and go beyond the expected to do the right thing, often at their own expense. Matters not what brand they sell, Backdraft, Shelby or whatever, if they are delivering what the promise they get my support.

The smart arse comment regarding Tesla was maybe a poor attempt at humor but understand that Tesla most likely is not paying the frieght for that repair. That will be forwarded to Lotus who actually build the chassis and is responsible for a structural issue. If it had been the powertrain then Tesla would pay the nut but in this case the bill will go to Lotus. To the customer there is no distinction, Tesla took care of it. My point was they took a PR opportunity in a warranty repair. Do you see press releases when your local Toyota dealer replaces a leaking gasket? Just being a little jaded here........

Interesting...if this is so well at least one of those dealers you speak of and is a sponsor on this site does this type of transaction. Car comes in as roller and goes out as driveable car to customer under different company and owner.

Customer and market clearly establishes this value. Yeah, I've got plenty of money in lawyers... Besides an arms length transaction would be an issue between family members. So it's really a Mucky interpretation of an unrelated term.

OP is Steve and we are in contact on all items. I believe he just wanted to get a feel for how many items can present themselves on these cars.

Right, but the thread quickly became that of MrGeorge's (that's what happens when you only post once in your own thread). And, btw, if any of you all are hiring lawyers to help you with a state regulatory matter, here's a tip: If your lawyer is not on a first name basis with the regulatory staff, you've hired the wrong lawyer.;)

What is not legal? Where is there a Federal law that states a manufacturer or dealer cannot perform the engine and tranny install whether using the dealer or an affiliated company? In CA, you cannot be both the dealer and installer for SPCNS vehicles, because of registration issues, but I have no clue if that's true in all 50 states.

That's like saying that Milgard Windows, who's a manufacturer of windows, cannot install their own windows, or cannot setup an affiliated company to install their windows.

Also, I'm not sure you know what the terms "arms length transaction" or "related parties" mean. You should look them up. Typically, they relate to a transaction between buyer and seller. In this case, the CSX dealer is a seller, the installer is also a seller and the buyer is "George."

There's nothing nefarious about the transaction, unless the dealer doesn't fully disclose to the buyer, "George," that the installer is in fact an related party to the transaction. If that indeed is/are the facts of George's situation.

You seem to keep focusing on my one example of good customer service and if you read my post, you would have known that there many other customers of Tesla who get excellent customer service, yet don't get their name and car in the paper.

I understand the concept of PR.

Here's another example of great customer service and you're more than welcome to "pick on" this one too, if you would like. I own a Toyota and I go back to the same place for service since it's purchase back many years ago. I go back there because of the excellent customer service that I have received over the years. The point being, this CSX dealer will ultimately lose customers, if he or she doesn't provide good customer service.

From everything that I've seen on this website. Keith Craft and Vintage Motorsport, both sponsors of this website provide their customers with a great product AND great customer service after the sale. And they get more new business and repeat business because of that. Two additional examples.

I am not aware of a large Federal reulations agency or rules pertaining to window manufacturers and installers. There is for automobiles, it is called NHTSA. And some small agency called "EPA"

While I am not an attorney and I may not have used the correct legal terminology, it is what I have heard used by people who are lawyers and understand the issues we are discussing. And that issue is a dealer selling the chassis and also selling/installing the powertrain. I have personally been involved in certifing an automobile with both the EPA and NHTSA. I have dealt with people at both and may still know some who work there.

The reason many cars are sold as "Turn Key Minus", that is less engine and transmission, is to avoid the federal definaition of a "vehicle." Let's use Superformance as I am familiar with this on a first hand basis and speak from actual experience. The chassis is imported as an automotive chassis "component" (thus often called "Component Automobiles") and has a defined U.S Customs I.D code (and they do NOT come in as "washing machine parts" as was the urban myth at one point) and are dutied as such. As a "component" the chassis is required to meet DOT standards such as brake hose construction, etc. IF this were a complete, running car it would be subject to all NHTSA and EPA regulations or require a bond to be posted requiring it to be upgraded to meet such standards or be re-exported at the end of such bond.

Now, if a dealer completes a "component chassis" it is no longer a "component" but rather a "vehicle" and thus subject to all of the aforementioned standards. The "loophole" is that an individual may complete the "component" for his personal use, not for resale. Thus Joe Bubba can install the powertrain or hire an unrelated third party to do so. It is still a "component vehicle" in the eyes of the Federal authorities. When it is done by a dealer who also sold the chassis, he has produced a "vehicle" and such vehicle is liable to all published standards. This is why many component chassis dealers are not required to be registered with the state DMV as a "dealer" as they do not sell "vehicles" any more than a NAPA store must be a registered dealer...they sell parts and a component chassis is a "part" or rather a collection of parts that constitute a "chassis."

Now I have seen several dealers who do not adhere to this concept either thay feel the can "fly under the radar" or they may have a different interpertation from their legal advisor. I will not be turning them in and it isn't my business to do so. I operate by my understanding of the law and they apparently do so under their understanding.

I have seen postings that California has denied registrations to some buyers who had a "Turn Key" car built, but to date I am not aware of any other states that have caught on to this.

I stand by my statement that the Federal regulations preclude a single source for a "turn key" car.

Please see below.

From the CA DMV website. My understanding is/was manufacturer sold directly to the buyer. Not a dealer to buyer transaction, assuming the dealership isn't owned by the manufacturer, of course.

'A "home-made, specially constructed, or kit vehicle" is a vehicle that is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. These vehicles may be built from a kit, new or used parts, a combination of new and used parts, or a vehicle reported for dismantling (junked) that, when reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the vehicle that was dismantled.'

BTW, I'm not aware of any certifications required by the EPA or NHTSA for our cars.

BTW, sorry about this analogy. New windows and new cars are two entirely different animals.

Correct. Because they are NOT "vehicles" however if sold completed they are. The sale is "into the first and normal commerce" so resale of a registered car is OK.

The definition is the key. Once it becomes a "vehicle" the seller must become a registered manufacturer and meet all standards unless the completion is by the chassis purchaser or party OTHER than the seller.

If you or another party (read "dealer") choose to accept a different interpertation, that is your right. My concern is that a buyer or potential buyer understands the risks in a "turn-key, one stop" purchase. It really sucks to go to the DMV and be turned down!

Well Mr. Muck it sounds like your associates in TX and at Gear 6 (Superformance Award of Excellence) have a different interpretation. So it's understandable.