427 Side Oiler

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Put another way, if I could wave a magic wand right now and turn my original iron 428, which I am happy with, in to an original iron 427SO, and every other aspect of the build stay exactly the same, with no change in any performance characteristic, or anything else in any way, I would certainly pay the magic wand fairy $3k for that, and, if she caught me in the right mood, I might go to $5k... but I don't think I'd go much higher than that.

This to me is representative of what's been lost sight-of in the last decade of replicas.
So many newer guys have no concept of the differences between SO's and other FE's--Other than it's cost, and what value it will add to their cars. And many just have SO's built to go to the lawn shows on Sunday and wow the sheep with the magic 'SO' word.
You Pat want to saddle an SO with a 400HP combination so you can just say it's an SO-or possibly increase the car's re-sale. Your 428 is ideal for your usage. But SO's, being priority main engines with over- square architecture, were made for more power and abuse than top oilers with long strokes. A 4.23 bore is ideal for 2.250 valves but is wasted on an engine built entirely for mild street use. There's nothing wrong in a well built 428 for street use and amazingly some are built by pros to run 9's in nostalgia racing.
What's lost on many is their intended usage does not include a steady diet of 6500+RPM in a properly geared car. All the threads are about what cruising RPM is comfortable on the highway.
The OP doesn't state but I'd like to know why he's considering a Nascar Tunnel Port (NOT a street engine unless emasculated with low compression and soft cam) for what I assume is a replica. Will he compete in a venue that requires top-end power or ET's? If it's for a Nascar Galaxy vintage racer-great.
I'll go a lot further and piss-off a lot of guys now-but it's my honest opinion.
Only four (427) replicas should have SO's (provided they're used as the design intended): KMP's, CSX's, ERA's and CCX's.
All the others, do fine with Windsors-or Chevys. The serious guys that race have proven Windsors are superb and (often preferred) track engines. All the others have demonstrated (by their acceptance of the compromised car makes) that they're totally unconcerned by the original nature of Cobras and just want a hand-built roadster for fun street driving. The mania about putting a numbers-match, date coded SO with points dizzy in a replica with (as example) a 96" wheelbase or other parameters alien to the original car is for talking points only. With those totally unfamiliar with the subject in the first place.
Disagree but don't bash-it's my opinion, just like you're entitled.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

This to me is representative of what's been lost sight-of in the last decade of replicas.

...

Disagree but don't bash-it's my opinion, just like you're entitled.

I agree with your post.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I agree with your post.

Thanks-we don't often agree but I appreciate you saying so.
Now only 14,000 other members will throw rocks....

[dls141]

It's a simple answer really IMO.

What does the emblem say on the side of the car slightly above and behind the front fender louvers?

Here's a hint: What SHOULD be under the hood of a 1969 big block Vette that says "427" on the hood scoop?

Again just my opinion. But then again I AM just a rank amateur.

[rgnbull1227]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

This to me is representative of what's been lost sight-of in the last decade of replicas.
So many newer guys have no concept of the differences between SO's and other FE's--Other than it's cost, and what value it will add to their cars. And many just have SO's built to go to the lawn shows on Sunday and wow the sheep with the magic 'SO' word.
You Pat want to saddle an SO with a 400HP combination so you can just say it's an SO-or possibly increase the car's re-sale. Your 428 is ideal for your usage. But SO's, being priority main engines with over- square architecture, were made for more power and abuse than top oilers with long strokes. A 4.23 bore is ideal for 2.250 valves but is wasted on an engine built entirely for mild street use. There's nothing wrong in a well built 428 for street use and amazingly some are built by pros to run 9's in nostalgia racing.
What's lost on many is their intended usage does not include a steady diet of 6500+RPM in a properly geared car. All the threads are about what cruising RPM is comfortable on the highway.
The OP doesn't state but I'd like to know why he's considering a Nascar Tunnel Port (NOT a street engine unless emasculated with low compression and soft cam) for what I assume is a replica. Will he compete in a venue that requires top-end power or ET's? If it's for a Nascar Galaxy vintage racer-great.
I'll go a lot further and piss-off a lot of guys now-but it's my honest opinion.
Only four (427) replicas should have SO's (provided they're used as the design intended): KMP's, CSX's, ERA's and CCX's.
All the others, do fine with Windsors-or Chevys. The serious guys that race have proven Windsors are superb and (often preferred) track engines. All the others have demonstrated (by their acceptance of the compromised car makes) that they're totally unconcerned by the original nature of Cobras and just want a hand-built roadster for fun street driving. The mania about putting a numbers-match, date coded SO with points dizzy in a replica with (as example) a 96" wheelbase or other parameters alien to the original car is for talking points only. With those totally unfamiliar with the subject in the first place.
Disagree but don't bash-it's my opinion, just like you're entitled.

The reason I am mentioning the 427 Nascar Tunnel port engine is that I am looking at a Car with that engine. Its got loads of work done to it and has approx 12:1 Compression. Has a ton of DOVE parts. Current owner adds a few gals of VP C16 fuel with hi test. I have the full list of the engine build but its quite lengthy. Actually had higher comp but he had the engine rebuilt recently and shimmed the head, little massaging and dropped some of the compression. My intended use is a fun car. Take it to car show nights, blast to dinner/breakfast, rally here or there. NOT going to be racing whatsoever. Now I know this is going to be a bit more temperamental than a 351 etc, but I do like unique vehicles. Other than not being an optimal street engine and the need to throw in some race fuel, what other negatives and I not seeing with this motor. This is my first Cobra and have had tons of exotics but a total newbie with this, even though I have done a ton of research and have learned quite a bit over the past few months.
Thanks for the input.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rgnbull1227

It's got loads of work done to it and has approx 12:1 Compression. ... Current owner adds a few gals of VP C16 fuel with hi test. ... My intended use is a fun car. Take it to car show nights, blast to dinner/breakfast, rally here or there.

No. You will not be happy with that engine. It is a poor choice for what you want to do.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by patrickt

No. You will not be happy with that engine. It is a poor choice for what you want to do.

I agree.

[brandx]

After playing with my 428 in my gt500 for the last 37 years I came to the conclusion that a small block can be just as fun. If you have to have an FE then go for it. I ended up with a small block in my replica for several reasons. #1, cost to build. #2 ease of maintainence. #3, the overall drivabilty seems to always be better in a small car. The resale factor has never been an issue with me. I am one of those people who drive what I like without worrying about what other people think. It has worked out great for me. The whole reason for building one was to drive it not to go to car shows. But thats just me.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by rgnbull1227

Other than not being an optimal street engine and the need to throw in some race fuel, what other negatives and I not seeing with this motor. This is my first Cobra and have had tons of exotics but a total newbie with this, even though I have done a ton of research and have learned quite a bit over the past few months.
Thanks for the input.

Specifically-it will make more heat to reject than a hydraulic 428. It will never run cool for 'street use'. Also, depending how much cam it has it will idle around 1100 and not happily. It won't loaf along in traffic without a lot of temperament. It's not an LS Vette with AC. There is nothing to like below 3500RPM for your use. How much power did the builder show you it made?
A hydraulic roller top oiler will make excellent torque for what you want without temperament-you don't need side-oiling -why spend for it?

[rgnbull1227]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Specifically-it will make more heat to reject than a hydraulic 428. It will never run cool for 'street use'. Also, depending how much cam it has it will idle around 1100 and not happily. It won't loaf along in traffic without a lot of temperament. It's not an LS Vette with AC. There is nothing to like below 3500RPM for your use. How much power did the builder show you it made?
A hydraulic roller top oiler will make excellent torque for what you want without temperament-you don't need side-oiling -why spend for it?

Builder said it made approx 550hp. Well, this was NOT what I wanted to hear but it seems this may not be the car for me. The sound of this engine was just music to my ears.

Cobra 3 - YouTube

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by rgnbull1227

Builder said it made approx 550hp. Well, this was NOT what I wanted to hear but it seems this may not be the car for me. The sound of this engine was just music to my ears.

Cobra 3 - YouTube

Tip for buying Cobras; don't accept what somebody 'said' it made. If you're spending $40-$100K on something, see documentation on the build and it's testing. Buy something that suits your use too.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by rgnbull1227

Builder said it made approx 550hp. Well, this was NOT what I wanted to hear but it seems this may not be the car for me. The sound of this engine was just music to my ears.

Cobra 3 - YouTube

Listen to the folks who have "been there,done that"......your talking about a high compression,very tempermental engine that will require a lot more than the average engine.....
For your stated purposes,if your dead set on a big block car,you'd be much better off with a nice stroked 390/428......
If you buy this car,I'll bet within a year you'll be looking to sell it......

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rgnbull1227

The reason I am mentioning the 427 Nascar Tunnel port engine is that I am looking at a Car with that engine. Its got loads of work done to it and has approx 12:1 Compression. Has a ton of DOVE parts. Current owner adds a few gals of VP C16 fuel with hi test.

I've been in the car scene nearly all my life and I've never heard of "VP C16 fuel."

Dove parts? What happened to all the Ford Tunnelport parts?

Listen to Chas, he knows mostly what he's talking about. (just kidding)

As to what premium I would pay for a 427 vs any other engine in a BB Cobra that I was considering? The answer would be:

The cost to build and install my new 427 less the salvage value of the engine being pulled from between the fenders.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I've been in the car scene nearly all my life and I've never heard of "VP C16 fuel."

Listen to Chas, he knows mostly what he's talking about. (just kidding)

.. then you never heard of C12 and C14 either.
And I've NEVER been accused of knowing what I spoke about-even a little.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

.. then you never heard of C12 and C14 either.
And I've NEVER been accused of knowing what I spoke about-even a little.

I'm guessing jet fuel, but who really cares. I'm sure Patrick will chime in next

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm guessing jet fuel, but who really cares. I'm sure Patrick will chime in next

I knew what it was... I was just thinking how much I would have had to carry in the trunk when I took that all day ride earlier this month in order to mix it with the fill-ups along the way. Not only is it not cheap, but it catches fire and explodes easily.

[rgnbull1227]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I knew what it was... I was just thinking how much I would have had to carry in the trunk when I took that all day ride earlier this month in order to mix it with the fill-ups along the way. Not only is it not cheap, but it catches fire and explodes easily.

it is less flammable than regular gas! Expensive yes. Instead of running this in my turbo sleds, I switched over to meth injection. Much easier.

[rgnbull1227]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I've been in the car scene nearly all my life and I've never heard of "VP C16 fuel."

Dove parts? What happened to all the Ford Tunnelport parts?

Listen to Chas, he knows mostly what he's talking about. (just kidding)

As to what premium I would pay for a 427 vs any other engine in a BB Cobra that I was considering? The answer would be:

The cost to build and install my new 427 less the salvage value of the engine being pulled from between the fenders.

VP C16 is here. Ive used this many times in my 300+HP Snowmobiles as well. Good fuel.
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-drag-racing.html