Ethanol fuel

rpatton3 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2012, 10:38 AM

I have never been a fan of vehicles and people and livestock consuming the same crop.

See "Sad Cow" link: Ethanol spurring new cases of sad cow | CowboyByte

Russell

lovehamr · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2012, 01:24 PM

You can't fix stupid. All you can do is vote it out and Cali ain't gonna vote out the stupid.

rpatton3 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2012, 11:01 PM

Will my lawn mower hate me if I use winter gas? What about summer gas in a snowmobile?

Is this treason?

rpatton3 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2012, 11:07 PM

Will my lawn mower hate me if I use winter gas? What about summer gas in a snowmobile?

Is this treason?

rpatton3 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2012, 11:02 PM

Will my lawn mower hate me if I use winter gas? What about summer gas in a snowmobile?

Is this treason?

WardL · #6 (**permalink**) 10-23-2012, 01:19 AM

Your lawn mower will run fine on winter gas. Your snowmobile may not start very well on summer gas if it is very cold outside. If it starts on summer gas, it will probable run ok.

The use of ethanol has very little to do with clean air or the EPA. It is all about the corn lobby buying the US Congress in 2005. Congress passed a bipartisan law to require more and more ethanol in gasoline. Bush signed it. Obama had nothing to do with it. Modern day automobiles do not require ethanol in gasoline to produce lower exhaust emissions. Excellent example of the best government money can buy.

lovehamr · #7 (**permalink**) 10-23-2012, 07:59 AM

Ward, who said anything about Obama? Gettin' a little sensitive?

AL427SBF · #8 (**permalink**) 11-19-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Ward, who said anything about Obama? Gettin' a little sensitive?

You can't fix stupid. All you can do is vote it out and Cali ain't gonna vote out the stupid.

Ok, I'll play - how would "Cali vote it out" being a federal level mandate?

lovehamr · #9 (**permalink**) 11-21-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

You can't fix stupid. All you can do is vote it out and Cali ain't gonna vote out the stupid.

Ok, I'll play - how would "Cali vote it out" being a federal level mandate?

Did you read the OP's link or just decide to rant? The link was specifically in reference to Cali dairy farms and the cost of business. Of course feed is a big issue for any dairy farm but even more so in California. And if you think that California has no say in what the EPA does then you haven’t been keeping up with current events for a few years. I’ll resist the urge to post links and California policies that make it hard on any farmer because you probably wouldn’t read them anyway. So you can go back to MSNBC and your federally mandated coolaid.

rpatton3 · #10 (**permalink**) 11-22-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Did you read the OP's link or just decide to rant? The link was specifically in reference to Cali dairy farms and the cost of business. Of course feed is a big issue for any dairy farm but even more so in California. And if you think that California has no say in what the EPA does then you haven’t been keeping up with current events for a few years. I’ll resist the urge to post links and California policies that make it hard on any farmer because you probably wouldn’t read them anyway. So you can go back to MSNBC and your federally mandated coolaid.

I had no idea how all this was going to turn out, but have a Happy Thanksgiving, one and all!

Ethanol-free Russell

rpatton3 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-23-2012, 04:25 PM

Is "winter gas" cheaper to produce? NASCAR fuel dosn't sit around for months; hence the abundance of fuel stabilizers for customers and ethanol free fuels at marinas.

Strangely, farmer's co-ops usually are a good place to get ethanol free gasoline. Maybe that is for small equipment like tillers or small, seasonal use or old equipment.

I am not crazy about adding the plethora of fuel additives like gas treatment, fuel injection cleaner, octane booster, fuel stabilizer and ethanol treatment solutions.

I think I have found a source for 93 ethanol-free fuel on pure-gas.org.

Thanks for letting me rant!

G-Pete · #12 (**permalink**) 10-24-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpatton3

NASCAR fuel dosn't sit around for months; hence the abundance of fuel stabilizers and ethanol free fuels at marinas.

Sorry, wrong assumption. The NASCAR fuel have a shelf life of 5 years, for home use 10 years.
These fuels are pure and have no additives in there.
Now they starting that ethanol crap, to play nice and get not restricted by the EPA.

The refineries mix,
Water
Additive to stabilize the water/gas mix
Additive to keep the water from freezing
Ethanol
Additive to stabilize the ethanol/gas mix
Anti knock additives
Fuel coloring
Additive to stabilize the coloring/gas mix

........and the list goes on.

The bottom line is, it is just bad gas. If they would be leave it alone how it comes from the tower - the engines would run better and longer.

The profit would be not as much - because the additives, water and ethanol are a good source to delude cheap a perfect product.

This is experience speaking not hear say.

G-Pete · #13 (**permalink**) 10-24-2012, 08:33 AM

Oh, one more thought...

here are guys who buy engines in the $8K to $10K range - why not buy race gas to keep the engines clean and happy. It's about $8 a gallon....

rpatton3 · #14 (**permalink**) 10-24-2012, 09:45 AM

I stand corrected. If I have mislead anybody, I apologize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Pete

Sorry, wrong assumption. The NASCAR fuel have a shelf life of 5 years, for home use 10 years.
These fuels are pure and have no additives in there.
Now they starting that ethanol crap, to play nice and get not restricted by the EPA.

The refineries mix,
Water
Additive to stabilize the water/gas mix
Additive to keep the water from freezing
Ethanol
Additive to stabilize the ethanol/gas mix
Anti knock additives
Fuel coloring
Additive to stabilize the coloring/gas mix

........and the list goes on.

The bottom line is, it is just bad gas. If they would be leave it alone how it comes from the tower - the engines would run better and longer.

The profit would be not as much - because the additives, water and ethanol are a good source to delude cheap a perfect product.

This is experience speaking not hear say.

rpatton3 · #15 (**permalink**) 10-24-2012, 05:57 PM

E15 Fuel

Fleet managers call for EPA rethink on E15 fuel | BrighterEnergy.org

Fleet managers seem to dislike this stuff.

We try to use ethanol free fuel in our 2002 Thunderbird that just turned over 5,000 miles.

I hope I can get a full tank of real gasoline in the Backdraft before we quit driving it in the cold weather.

G-Pete · #16 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 08:42 AM

Now another thought,
in Germany they quit to sell ethanol containing gasoline. The drivers just don't want to buy it.

Please read here:

German Buyer Strike Stops Ethanol | The Truth About Cars

Even Greenpeace stated ethanol used in gasoline is BAD for the environment.

rpatton3 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 12:34 PM

Good for them!

Sorta like a boycott? We may be too far gone!

I like good news like this.

Russell

Bob In Ct · #18 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 08:28 PM

Ethanol (Ethyl Alcohol) has always been bad science, but the farmers in Iowa love the fact that they got Congress to mandate the stuff in gasoline. I would have to bet that everyone in Congress is either a lawyer or a business person, if a few of them had degrees in chemistry (like yours truly) we might not have to put up with this stupidity.

Bob

rpatton3 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 09:18 PM

I guess the reason farmers co-ops and marinas sell ethanol free fuel might be because the intended use is not on highways. I no longer have any crop duster friends using low lead 100 octane avgas.

The FBO at our airport was great to sell jet fuel during an ice storm and subsequent power outage but I just don't have the nerve to ask for avgas.

Do cows need a catalytic converter? Afterburner? Why waste the methane?
It burns cleaner than lots of fuels. Seriously, we could capture methane from old landfills and use the free methane for something productive.

WardL · #20 (**permalink**) 11-18-2012, 11:45 PM

You might consider NASCAR engines are completely rebuilt after each race. NASCAR has much different needs than any street car. Some of the additives in fuels are designed to keep deposits out of the engines. I have to disagree with G-Pete in that the refinery does not add water to fuels. There will be traces of water in all fuel due to processing, but when the fuel leaves the refinery it should be "dry". Perhaps we are missuderstanding each other by the definition of the refinery and the truck loading terminal. Ethanol is almost always added to gasoline at the terminal where the tanker trucks are loaded for delivery to the retail site. Many refineries have truck loading terminals, but there are many terminals not close to a refinery. The blending of ethanol into gasoline adds a lot more dissolved water in gasoline.

The driver and car (tires, power, etc) have more to do with sucess on the weekend track than switching from retail premium fuel to super duper racing fuel. This is particularly so in an over-powered Cobra. I'll take my $4/gallon premium anytime over $8/gallon racing fuel.