What are the best and worst aspects of your Cobra,Coupe, GT 40 etc.

[Clois Harlan]

Over the next few months there will be a lot of new Potential Buyers looking to buy a new or pre-owned Cobra. I wonder how many of you can be truly honest with your Cobra's most positive aspects as well as the disappointments you have encountered.
For me when I first decided I wanted a Cobra I was looking for a kit that I could afford without breaking the bank or disrupting my family’s lifestyle. I knew very little about what actually made a good kit car. Today I believe I am better informed and would make a different initial decision than I did 13 years ago.
If I were buying a new kit, I would look at a builder’s reputation as a person and as a builder. For me it all comes down to trust. Do what you say you will do and do it in the time frame you promised. That is EXTREMELY important to me. In the long run your relationship with your builder is like a marriage of sorts. You both make promises you are supposed to keep.

Some kits are very popular because of their use of media; others have a reputation built on their product. Many other kits are very good products that may be less popular on a larger scale because of their regional appeal. IMO it comes down to which price range you are shopping and which builders in that range deserve your business. The hierarchy of builders may be a personal thing but I do believe you get what you pay for in the long run. We have a vast array of owners on this site that can help anyone interested in a particular builder.
I have learned that there are key safety aspects we all need to consider when we make our decisions. Some builders do the absolute minimum to get their kit on the road and others go the extra mile to ensure you and your passenger’s safety. To me one of the MOST important things to look at in these cars is Balance. Many of us go into these deals thinking we need a thousand horsepower when in fact we don’t. Bigger is not always better (unless you are the US Military). As I said Balance with respect to engine, brakes, components (shocks, springs, steering racks, steering columns, upper and lower A-Arms, wheels and tires). For Some builders they have a product they WANT you to buy when you walk in the door because it will turn a faster profit for them. Other builders truly listen to your needs and intentions for your kit. Those are the ones I would want to do business with if it were me. Some builders will offer you a base kit and as you start to ad upgrades you find you could have bought a higher level kit for the same cost.
I can tell you my first builder installed the bare minimum in brakes and suspension to get me out the door. It took me some time to realize I needed to make changes to do anything other than drive to the Dairy Queen once a week. After 13 years of ownership I can tell you my Cobra fiberglass was the best aspect of my kit although to many it was too thick and heavy. I have literally changed every nut and bolt on my Cobra to make it as safe and dependable as possible. Now it is not only safe for the streets but it performs pretty darn well on the track too.

The long and short of any financial decision is "am I getting what I really want and will it perform the way I expect it too". To answer this question we must make honest up front decisions that must be shared between you and your builder. I have my list of builders I respect and I am sure many of you have yours as well. Maybe we can share that information here for anyone really wanting to know a little more about their potential builder.

What prompted this you ask? I have answered similar questions for potential buyers over the last couple weeks. I thought some of you might have some insight on your vehicle or thought process when making your decisions.

Clois Harlan

[Wbulk]

So Clois, are you talking about the manufacturer of the kit or someone else that builds a car for someone? Not sure what you mean by builder.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by Clois Harlan

Over the next few months there will be a lot of new Potential Buyers looking to buy a new or pre-owned Cobra.

Clois, how did you get to this conclusion?

[brettco]

Heat.

[Steve Cassani]

Clois writes: "Today I believe I am better informed and would make a different initial decision than I did 13 years ago.
If I were buying a new kit, I would look at a builder’s reputation as a person and as a builder. For me it all comes down to trust."

After a sour experience with a Superformance MkIII I have put the lesson to work. David Wagner will do the final assembly of my Kirkham slabside hybrid. In my due diligence on the purchase of the MkIII I failed to note that many if not most of the people who spoke favorably of their Superformance cars were speaking in defense of their own decisions to purchase the car. They take criticism of the quality of the car's assembly as a crticism of themselves. I posted a partial listing of the problems I had with the car on this website. The ensuing vitriol from owners and two dealers, one of whom approached me at a vintage car event, were impressive.

However representative my experience might be, I caution a prospective purchaser to be careful whom they trust to build a car that honors the cars reputation among its owners.

My purchase happened to come during the conflict between Shelby and Superformance, along with a relatively minor disagreement between the engine builder who was also responsible for final assembly and Dynamic's affiliation with Roush. By the time the angry words the parties had for each other were shared with me over the phone, all during Dean Rosen's absence, my car had slipped into a twilight where no one took responsibility for doing their part of the job well. The result was a car fraught with minor and not so minor mis-assemblies and outright mistakes. A couple bordered on neglect.

I was especially angry with myself, since I committed to a Superformance when I could afford a car constucted by Kirkham and the cost of David's time and skill. Still, several months of owning the Mk III passed until I realized I had gotten what I paid for. I'm confident the same thing will happen this time. The quality of the car and that of work done to complete it will be commensurate with what I am asked to pay. This time, the quality will also match my aspirations for a Cobra I can enjoy.

The fit of what you are able to pay for and what you demand of a finished car is, I have come to think, critical to how satisfying owning the car will be. Don't overstate the latter at the expense of the former. Bring your expectations into line with your ability and willingness to pay, or, and this was my mistake, don't short change what you pay while keeping your expectations the same. You will be disappointed and that will be no one's fault but your own.

The kit car or reproduction market is, for the most part, honest and certainly it is competitive. Find your niche in it and the car selection will fall into place.

[Wbulk]

I think Clois's intent here was to bring some openness and honesty to the discussion of the quailty of builders and possible quality of cars. I must say I envy the opennes the Factory Five guys have about their cars. I think with resonable reading time a person can find the good and bad points of the FF car over on the other forums, and pretty much know what they are getting into buying one of those cars. That openness and honesty I believe has led to improvements to the cars over the years that are impressive, and has led to a network of guys who are willing to talk about how to improve things and make their cars better without fear of talking about a problem with the car or the company.

I wrongly thought that was the norm, but after posting on CC concerns with problems with building my car back in 2009 I received an email by a member warning me that my comments may devalue ours cars or lead to the company going out of business, which would make the cars worth less. I longed for honest discussion on improvements and methods to fix problems. I ended up talking to other owners off line and on the phone. Some think that the car they bought years ago, that they are happy with, is the same car the company is selling today. That is seldom the case with any brand. The company and car may be better or worse.

[Kobura]

Keeping to the essence of the thread's title and thereby keeping my response extremely brief, here are the best and worst of my Backdraft RT3 and Vintage installed drivetrain:

BDR Best-Affordable Cost(for me)
BDR Worst-Suspension Stiffness

Vintage Best-Everything
Vintage Worst-East Coast Location(I'm in CA)

Richard

P.S. I have had my car since June 2012.

[vector1]

i think some information from the builders would be helpful, their expectations, designs on the future, information they would prefer to have, etc.

[Donunder]

I've been a Cobra tragic for as long as I can remember. When I owned my Austin Healey 3000 in the late 1960s I used to fantasize over the Rod Leach "Nostalgia" ads in the English Thoroughbred and Classic Car magazine featuring "genuine" Cobras which were already well out of reach financially. I bought Carroll Shelby's "The Cobra Story" as told to John Bentley way back in 1968 I think it was, and I even managed to capture some grainy 8mm footage of Ken Miles at Lakeside Raceway in his Cobra years ago. I remember it was the first time a can of Coke vibrated in my hand when a race car went by! So you could say that Cobras have been on my mind one way and another for some considerable time.

My son seemed to inherit my passion for these wonderful cars and he has owned two locally built Australian examples, so I tagged along to the local club meetings, but never really felt the call to buy a "modern" Cobra.

Two years ago we came upon a pristine low mileage example of a car built by one of the very first builders of replica Cobras, Steve Arntz who commenced building his replicas in the early 1970s, only a few years after the cessation of the Cobra racing dynasty. This one had been built by Arntz Industries in their production assembly workshop at 1745 Filbert St, San Francisco in 1979. To me it has one of the best shapes of all Cobra replicas and the fact that it is old school satisfies my need for a Cobra whose siblings came into existence a few short years after the last of the originals. It is Chevy 454 powered, as were a lot of the Arntz cars, which may upset some purists but it is a thirty-three year old example, showing some of the lovely patina and signs of her age.

I have replaced the original MGB front end with a custom Cobra-sized one from FAST CARS, Inc MGB IFS which is a two inch wider version of their MGB IFS. I think steering and braking are reasonably important so I justified the upgrade on safety grounds.

This old Arntz is a real attention grabber and has a little more street cred because due to its age I've been allowed to retain its left hand drive configuration, something different down here in Oz.

To add to my satisfaction my son has recently sourced a 1981 Arntz. We travelled to Goodwood for the Revival meeting in September and were overwhelmed at the sight of more than twenty beautiful original racing Cobras. There is still no chance that our finances will ever stretch to owning one of these beauties but having two "vintage" Arntzs in the family is pretty cool just the same.

Sorry if I've strayed off track a bit Clois, but if you're talking about builders who put together a quality car that's going to stand the test of time, then Steve Arntz was a shining example.

[Dirty Harry]

When I caught the bug for a Cobra replica I was young, had small children, and an income that did not support such a hobby. Accordingly, my choices included, (1) make some compromises in the build, or (2) forget it entirely. After scraping together the cash to order some parts and begin a build in 1990, I lost my deposit and earnest money to the Classic Roadsters bankruptcy.

Shell Valley agreed to sell me a kit on my conditions that I would give them no money until the parts were inspected by me and loaded on my trailer. It was, at the time, a mid-range car, price-wise, and it was clear they were not going to steal my money. I wanted to do all the work myself and my budget required it, anyway.

So, the car slowly came together in my garage, in an era when Cobra replicas were pretty unsophisticated. By cutting a few corners and doing all my own work, I finished a car for 20K. Now, over 2 decades later, the compromises I made are still part of the car and it is less sophisticated than most of the cars I park beside at the cobra shows. That's the downside. The upside is that it looks decent, goes like stink, and I know every inch of it. Without borrowing a dime, I had the car I dreamed of, and still love to drive it.

[WildBill1965]

First let me say that I like all cobras, just the masteik I guess and always wanted one for about 40 years! that being said I have a Mk-III SPF and the fit and finish is second to none, at least on my car except to the rock chips on the front end, but if you drive them and track them I guess that is expected! No problems so far and this is a 07 built car, except for the cracked winshield wich they replaced under warrenty. Said to drive it and enjoy the summer driving season and let them know when I wanted to have it replaced. Roush engine nock on wood I haven't experienced any of the oil usage like others, probably just jinxed my self. Intake gasked went south as they were useing the wrong ones initally replaced that and so far so good, almost 18,000 miles. Drive the car all year long, 26* in winter hell that makes me shivver just thinking about it, really not that bad just getting started is the worst. Starter bendix starter started acting up just before going to FL. And those noisy Scorpion Rockers, well with ear plugs can't hear them any way. And that is my experience, I think the installer is the KEY Dennis Oltoff done the install and shake down he knows these cars inside and out and it shows! Would I buy a the same brand, even if I can write a check for a more expensive brand, based on my experience so far you be the judge!

B i l l

[lovehamr]

Pretty good thread starter there Clois. I'll jump in with what I've found with my BDR.

#1 Most components and attributes are very good. Occasionally I find chincy stuff like the brackets that hold the front quick jacks were not fully welded and weak.

#2 The interior size is great for those of larger stature and still looks mostly vintage and right.

#3 The paint and body work are nice, much better than I could do, but not what you'd call show quality.

#4 All of my frame, suspension and drivetrain points are great. The suspension and brakes are BMW E36 so they're built for a car that weighs almost a thousand pounds more than mine and is known for its handling. Once I got into it, I have found the suspension to be easy to work with for most objectives. However, taking a step up in componentry is a big step as the shocks and springs are proprietary with few options. This means custom coil-overs if a real upgrade is desired. I'm still using my stock brakes and even after several open track events I have yet to experience any fade.

#5 It seems the chassis was designed around a small block Ford and engines like my FE were after thoughts and required more fitting and fabbing than I'd have had, had I gone with a SB. It just didn’t have the same level of completeness for the FE.

#6 Jay at Vintage was very easy to work with even though I’m in south GA. BDR headquarters in FL is much closer but not as easy to deal with. They’ll come through in a pinch but not until they’re pushed hard.

Conclusion: Do I like my BDR? YES! Would I buy a BDR again? Yes, with some qualifications..................... But what I really lust after is a Kirkham…………………………..

[Kobura]

The points of the previous post seem to ring true based upon my brief(er) experience with Backdraft/Vintage. Especially so on the following points:

The suspension component customization has been a puzzle. I experienced an unacceptably firm ride with very quirky steering behavior. It seems to me that the suspension is "frozen" on my car. The spring rates were a mystery to both Backdraft and Vintage. After testing the rear suspension without the shocks, I surmised that the shocks were the problem and am in the process of getting softer ones. After much research, I discovered that VW shocks will fit and will try them shortly. Assuming that the rear suspension will improve with different shocks, I will seek new coilovers for the front. It is clear that after market BMW e36 suspension components are not a viable alternative.

Backdraft in Florida has not provided me with any support on suspension issues and an issue with the speedometer/tachometer. In contrast, Vintage has owned up to making sure that I am satisfied with the drive train(no problem except for a failed alternator which they covered under warranty).

I feel very fortunate to have gotten a fairly high degree of satisfaction in my procurement of a Cobra via the internet from Backdraft/Vintage, but it definitely required a great deal of trust. Based upon my experience, you can count on Jay and Brian to stand and deliver.

Richard

[Fitz]

Love my toy- no issues except normal wear/tear!

[lamaluv]

My post will be mostly for those looking at buying a used replica. My car is ERA EXP 002 and it was built in 1980 and I am the 7th owner. The car has over 35,000 miles on it and has been taken good care of for the most part. One owner took the car to Run and Gun to compete for several years. One owner had the car for just a few months while others had it for many years. The original owner had a wreck with the car that required a new body as the fiberglass was beyond repair. When buying used vehicles use due diligence and find out everthing you can about the cars' past. Inspect or have someone who knows what they are doing check the car out. When I bought the car I knew most of the things that would be needed or that I wanted to do to the car. Most of the things I found were to be expected of a 32 year old vehicle.

Some changes were cosmetic; street dash to comp, aluminum engine compartment panels, and tires. Age related like; rebuild engine, new wiring harness, header pipes and master cylinders.

The drawbacks were that I had to replace some items because of age and others because of choice. If I would have bought new and to order I could have had it the way I "thought" that I wanted it at the time.

The plus side was that by buying used I could afford the ERA that I have always wanted. With the car being 30+, it has the patina that I have always admired in an original Cobra that has been driven.

The car is loud, cold in winter, hot in the summer, will mess your wifes hair, burn her leg and more fun than any car I have ever owned. Of course this describes most any Cobra.

Customer service from ERA has been outstanding even though I didn't buy the car from them. They have a great reputation and stand behind it every time.

[mdross1]

Can certainly understand why Clois feels this way.I say it is not so much about the kit as it is about the builder.Unfortunatly lots of people will not look at certain cars because of the bad press,no names of manf needed,and will not give them a second look.That is certainly Okay and a shame because with a little background knowledge of what to look for there are some incredible deals to be had.

There are a lot of builders, top notch I might add not after notoriety,building quality machines.The more involved one gets into the passion of owning these great cars the more the doors open to finding these people and their creations.It is all about doing the leg work and not being afraid to ask questions.

The worst thing anyone can do is give up on a project,unless there are circimstances that leave them with no choice.Otherwise the end result is so worth the time and effort.The satisfaction level has no price.Sometimes it is frustrating when feeling the need for speed and having no place to work it off.In our case the summer traffic has become almost ridiculus around home.Now have to drive 10 or 15 miles to find enough peace and quiet to really stretch it out.

[Clois Harlan]

Sorry for posting this and not checking back but my mother had some health issues over the holidays that required all my attention.

To answer some of the questions:

I just thought that as much as we love our cars there are some issues that have been over looked or side stepped. I have built or helped build several kits (B&B, Backdraft (three times), Hurricane, RCR, JBL, FFR (twice), and one Kirkham. IMO each has their strong points and weaknesses. Perhaps the some of the MOST loyal owners are those with Superformance Cars. IMO, Some of the best build instructions come from Factory Five as do some of the best revisions (Dave Smiths group seems to listen to their customers). I know that Mike and Steve at Hurricane used a lot of input to make their Cobra as good as it could possibly be and stay with in a certain price point. Hurricane and Backdraft are two of the best mid-priced Kits available. I know Tony Martin and Reg Dodd has put a lot of development into thier cars as well. Kirkham, Shelby, Superformance and ERA are excellent cars and I would love to own any of them. I would include JBL to the later list because I have seen the build from start to finish and the workmanship is as good as any I have seen yet.

My original kit was well built at the time but lacked many of the safety and performance upgrades I wanted. Unfortunately, I didn't know I needed or wanted those upgrades at the time of my build. For me ownereship was a learning curve. The first time I took my Cobra to the track one of the other drivers noticed my 9" brake rotors and told me I really needed to upgrade my brakes before doing anymore spirited driving on the track. He was Correct! As it turned out I made a lot of upgrades.

Clois

[Clois Harlan]

Originally Posted by mdross1

The worst thing anyone can do is give up on a project,unless there are circimstances that leave them with no choice.Otherwise the end result is so worth the time and effort.The satisfaction level has no price.Sometimes it is frustrating when feeling the need for speed and having no place to work it off.In our case the summer traffic has become almost ridiculus around home.Now have to drive 10 or 15 miles to find enough peace and quiet to really stretch it out.

This is so true! I have never regretted building a Cobra, yes they are hot, yes they are a bit smelly, and yep they may be somewhat temperamental at times. But, my worst times were better than most other good times. The friends I have made with the Cobra crowd has proven to be the best I have ever had. As for the builders, with few exceptions, most want to give us what we expect in the time frame promised. Shortages do occur from time to time with everything.

[BMK]

Hi all,

I have built two Cobras and a GT40. Additionally, I have over the years built up a number of classics - they are classics today.. ...but when I was young they were family cars that I just played around with.

Power and appearance were always important when I was younger - today I am more aware of handling and braking..

I built one Cobra from the ground up after buying a body from Sydney - Homebush - I sat the engine on the ground attached the transmission then sat both on timber about 4" off the floor. My friends at McDonald Brothers Racing drew the chassis on the floor with chalk dropping the body over
the engine and transmission.

A real scratch build - but my point here is, we ended up being very similiar in the end product to the various chassis that had already been built. There is only so many changes or innovations that we could add.

I ended up with a 9" inche live axle shortened, a tube upper and lower 'A arm' front, coil over QA1 etc. again, similiar to many other kits or original cars.

The end result with most of my cars, was that I was convinced that I had built the best Cobra or GT40 on the road or track.



Anyway, back to the Thread topic - Clois, today I own a Kirkham with a Shelby aluminium 468 from Shelby's supplier DenBeste in Cal .

Having been to a number of events in the US, I had been privileged to drive numerous Cobras including the Kirkham. My latest acquisition was simple for me - I liked the look of the brushed aluminium, I fitted comfortably in the Kirkham and whilst it was a little more expensive I was able to sell my GT40 just when Craig at Absolute Pace became the Australian agent for Kirkham.

Ok the decision was made and the engine and Kirkham purchase was simple as I had the spare cash and wanted a Kirkham. In particular a brushed aluminium body.

I have had the Kirkham for 3 months now. I have covered 4500+ miles so far and enjoyed every minute in it..

Early observations of the Kirkham:

The body is pure art and built and finished to the highest standard

The brushed aluminium finish was a good choice, as polished would need flat black vinyl placed to stop reflection - particularly if a full face helmet was worn. I think flat black vinyl across the dash leading edge and possibly the top of the offside guard would be required if on the track with a polished Kirkham. But no problem with the brushed finish.

Overall construction of the Kirkham is great

Overall finish with interior is outstanding particularly the seat and the rubber trampoline designed base.

Changes I made during assembly were small and for my reasons

I had the floor under the drivers seat modified - a Bernie bubble - with the seat base now able to drop below the floor. I am 200lb. Empty..

I modified the inner guard behind the drivers seat allowing the seat back into it about 1 and 1/2".

I lifted the steering wheel about 1/4" which made about 1" difference at the wheel circumference.

I moved the pedals fully forward. At 6'1" I both fit in the car with absolute comfort and control.

Problems I have found are only minor during driving and during the assembly build

I hit the ignition key, if I have keys hanging off the ignition key, I hit the hanging keys with my knee and this turns the ignition off with my left knee. This is happening occasionally when I drive with anger or purpose - changing quickly. No problem just took all the keys off and had a spare drive key cut. It has a rubber band on it so I don't lose it. Don't hit it now as it has no keys hanging above my left knee.

I had to change the diff pinion seal, as it was leaking and this was nearly a full day job as the tail shaft cannot be taken out due to the cross member under it. Either you pull the entire diff out or engine and transmission out to get to the diff easily.

i did not want to pull either out entirely, we pushed the tail shaft into the trans and forced it up to get the diff seal out and replace it. We unbolted the diff partially and pushed the diff nose up as well.

No big deal, but very time consuming and this is simply due to the chassis being built totally original.

In summing up and to Clois Thread

I know the Kirkham meets or exceeds my expectations. It is a close as I will get to buying or wanting a early low number CSX Cobra.
.
Mmmm hope my thoughts have not been to drawn out or confusing..