Ford 385 (460) series Induction

[Mother]

I presently run a 460 custom built motor producing 740 hp with 680 ft pounds of torque. It is plenty to play with providing that you keep the rev's under 5 grand to prevent leaning out the mixture. I am using a reflowed 650 cfm 4150 Holley.

I am thinking seriously about going to change the intake to accomadate the 8 stack Hilborn EFI set-up. I know the starting kit is $7700 with the computer, plus options and linkage.

Install and set-up will be done by a NASCAR Canadian Tire engine builder. (New generation Engine of Fonthill Ontario Canada.) Cost unknown.

New Generation has completed a small block 427 using the Hilborn system and it works perfect. (675 / 605).

My question is has anyone else used the Hilborn system, or Inglese, or any other EFI 8 stack system, and their experiences. I know the benifits of going from a carb system to and 8 stack EFI system. True Webbers, and their inherent tuneing problems are a bridge I do not want to cross.

[ERA Chas]

I can't answer your question.
But I respectfully question how you made such power, using no more than 5000RPM and a 'reflowed' 650.
A displacement of 557" inches would be needed to easily produce 740+HP at 1.4HP/CI. Even if modified to 900CFM, (impossible without a larger baseplate and throttlebody) it would be hard pressed to get there. But the RPM limit makes no sense.
Hope someone can help with your request, but I'd be most interested in your complete combination.
Thank you,

[Bill D]

Check verycoolparts.com

[Tim Brewer]

That's kinda what I was thinking Chas. My 501 has Scat crank and rods, JE 10 1/2-1 pistons, Comp cams hydraulic roller cam, Torquer intake, Cobra Jet aluminum heads and a DaVinci Big Gun 1250 Dominator flowing 1381 CFM. This combo gives me 550 bhp at a little over 6000 RPM.

[DanEC]

Either a typo (950 cfm maybe) or it wasn't dynoed with that carb.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Tim Brewer

That's kinda what I was thinking Chas. My 501 has Scat crank and rods, JE 10 1/2-1 pistons, Comp cams hydraulic roller cam, Torquer intake, Cobra Jet aluminum heads and a DaVinci Big Gun 1250 Dominator flowing 1381 CFM. This combo gives me 550 bhp at a little over 6000 RPM.

Tim, the fact that you, Dan and I have raised suspicions that the power numbers don't add up is intentionally ignored by the OP. Further, we'll never know because he's unwilling to supply build specs or dyno sheets-his prerogative. He further doesn't understand that the induction he seeks is very dependent on his engine's ability to use it. I get it-he just wants to visually impress people.
The size of his checkbook has blinded him to the possibility that he was picked-off by race professional builders-in this case for a 60MPH-envelope street car.
He'll get no further input from me and probably not you or Dan.
And that will please him.

[D-CEL]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Tim, the fact that you, Dan and I have raised suspicions that the power numbers don't add up is intentionally ignored by the OP. Further, we'll never know because he's unwilling to supply build specs or dyno sheets-his prerogative. He further doesn't understand that the induction he seeks is very dependent on his engine's ability to use it. I get it-he just wants to visually impress people.
The size of his checkbook has blinded him to the possibility that he was picked-off by race professional builders-in this case for a 60MPH-envelope street car.
He'll get no further input from me and probably not you or Dan.
And that will please him.

Hmmm, sounds like bashing to me.

[Dwight]

Eight Stack has a system for the 460.
Eight Stack Injection- Eight Stack Media

Email Dale at dale@eightstack.com for details and price.

Dwight

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Hmmm, sounds like bashing to me.

Well it's not. It's just a blunt statement of facts to the other members who came to the same conclusion I did.
This early in his thread, he provided no further info and we had no knowledge of his technical understanding or lack thereof.
Not until later did he offer a 'stringing-along' apology and the fact that he had no idea of his combination so we might help him.
On seeing his mistreatment, several of us offered sensible and helpful advice.
His original question about induction is far secondary to the primary question of what the specs of what he has, are. He cannot effectively do one without the other. Bringing this to his attention is more beneficial than telling him what is available in induction eyewash.
If his car quits on the side of the road, he has zero technical information to help himself or a professional to repair it. Being reliant on the guys that built it and disadvantaged him is not a good situation.

[D-CEL]

[quote=ERA Chas;1271833]
“Well it's not. It's just a blunt statement of facts to the other members who came to the same conclusion I did. This early in his thread, he provided no further info and we had no knowledge of his technical understanding or lack thereof.”
I’m sorry, somehow I missed it in his post where he asked “Please tell me if you think my motor is capable of the numbers my builder claims and critique what “I feel is important in my fun car”
Oh that’s right, He didn’t ask that….
“Not until later did he offer a 'stringing-along' apology and the fact that he had no idea of his combination so we might help him.”
And why should he apologize to you or anyone else for not knowing the all the details of his motor? He asked a question ABOUT STACK EFI. It seems a fairly straight forward request for input from people that have both 460 and stack EFI experience. Interestingly, You have neither….and even open with : I don’t know anything about the subject you asked about, But Ill comment anyway…
I must have missed the post that appointed you “High Inquisitor”.
“ On seeing his mistreatment,(AT YOUR HANDS) several of us offered sensible and helpful advice. His original question about induction is far secondary to the primary question of what the specs of what he has, are. He cannot effectively do one without the other. Bringing this to his attention is more beneficial than telling him what is available in induction eyewash.”
What sensible advice did you offer other than “Don’t post here unless you’re prepared to be ridiculed for not knowing your push rod lengths…” and SECONDLY, Who the he!! are you to determine what is “secondary” in importance in his post. Feeling overly Self-important you are.
“If his car quits on the side of the road, he has zero technical information to help himself or a professional to repair it. Being reliant on the guys that built it and disadvantaged him is not a good situation.”
Again, How is this your concern and how does this have anything to do with his post? Maybe he has a terrific roadside assistance program?
It seems you post a lot of mindless off-topic dribble and are easily distracted from the original topic.
Let’s talk about you instead. How is it that a guy with 3600 posts has not a single photo in his gallery and not a scrap of information about a car or motor in his profile? Do you own a Cobra?
Sadly, your posts follow a familiar pattern. I hate to profile, but we have seen this before. I have to ask: Do you own an ERA with an FE in it? Years ago, I read a post from a Dr. about a mental condition that affect certain people in your demographic. Ill do some research and see if I can find the old posts….
Jason

[Mother]

Gentilemen.
The engine is a custom built motor from New Generation Engine of Fonthill Ontario Canada. I can assure you that when one pays 30 grand for a custom, reliable built by an NASCAR Canadian Tire engine builder who supply engines to winners in the series as well as an engine supplier to dirt track racers, the numbers are accurate.

Besides numbers do not count. My original question was experience with all suppliers of EFI 8 stack fuel injection. What the final engines produces in torque and HP is of no importance. I am after information only. I am only after the look. I do not care what numbers will be created on completeion of the newly installed induction system. I find the current motor to be more than enough. I am seaking an awesome shock and awe look. An 8 stack system on an installed 385 - 460 block will more than give me that. Besides I want to continue to drive the car on the street, and have fun. Power is not what a 64 year old car nut is really interested in. Looks, sound, and haveing fun in my hobby is all I personally want. Nothing more. Sixty miles an hour is our speed limit up here. If you do over 90 miles an hour, and get caught, you lose the car and it gets crushed. So, speed only on tracks or strips. Numbers don't mean a thing. Looks, well thats the ticket.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Mother

Besides numbers do not count. My original question was experience with all suppliers of EFI 8 stack fuel injection. What the final engines produces in torque and HP is of no importance. I am after information only. I am only after the look. I do not care what numbers will be created on completion of the newly installed induction system. I find the current motor to be more than enough. I am seaking an awesome shock and awe look. An 8 stack system on an installed 385 - 460 block will more than give me that. Besides I want to continue to drive the car on the street, and have fun. Power is not what a 64 year old car nut is really interested in. Looks, sound, and haveing fun in my hobby is all I personally want. Nothing more. Sixty miles an hour is our speed limit up here. If you do over 90 miles an hour, and get caught, you lose the car and it gets crushed. So, speed only on tracks or strips. Numbers don't mean a thing. Looks, well thats the ticket.

Excellent post. That set-up will look wonderful. Post some shots of it if you can.

[Bill D]

Interesting that his personal profile lists 650 horsepower. Both numbers proclaimed seem dubious at best

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bill D

Interesting that his personal profile lists 650 horsepower. Both numbers proclaimed seem dubious at best

I believe him. Anyone who would use the moniker "Mother" has to be telling the truth.

[Mother]

Thanks guys.
I will end the question. I should have know better than ask questions, and open myself up for rebuke. About the size of my check-book? I indend to do the modification any way. And yes, pictures will follow when completed. The car is built by Boss Replica Motors in Burlington Ontario Canada. The car is far superior than any other 427 AC Cobra built in, and for Canadians. Besides, only kit's are allowed into Canada. Those kits can only have so many supplied parts. When completed, our D.O.T. has to ok the car when finished. Or you can purchase at least a 15 year old complete car and then if you are lucky, the D.O.T. Might let the unit be licenced. We can purchase a Super - preformance from London Ontario. I didn't because, in my opinion the Boss's car frame was much better. Also a turn Key car from Boss, came Guarentied and Passed by the D.O.T.

Mother "Because I care"

[ERA Chas]

Before you go; three-time Engine Masters Challenge winner and National Recordholder of multiple entrants, Jon Kaase's product and price:
Jon Kaase Racing Engines - 520 to 598 C.I. Kaase P-51 Engine
Are Canadian dollars 2 X US dollars??

[Mother]

No Canadian dollars are not 2X United States dollars. As of today, we have to add .07 cents Canadian to get one US dollar.

But having to send your motor back to the states for possible warrenty repairs, including customs, brokage, Crateing, and the distain most State-side engine builders have for Canadians. (because I am so distant form the builders and time to return the motor.) Well, its a risk I was not willing to take. Thus the decission for a Canadian Nascar builder. I am more than aware of John Kaase, and his excellent products. The P51 series is one excellent unit.

I would love to detail the 460 engine than was built for me. Unfortunatly I do not have the exact specs. And the cam specs will not be released by the builder. I do not even have a copy of the dino report. So, I understand why you guys feel that I am stringing you along. What I do know is that when I put my foot into the loud petal, the dual skid marks on the road, match the skid marks in my undies. Thank G_d for marine vinal seats. They clean up easily. LOL

Mother (Cause I care for my friends)

[STL Mark]

Without knowing the specs of your engine, and taking you at your word re: horsepower estimates, I would suggest a couple of things.

1) Have your current set-up dyno-tested for actual performance figures. Your dyno-tech may even suggest some enhancements to your current set-up that you may appreciate. And, you'll at the very least have a "before" picture of your engine.

2) Do a bit more research about Webber, and EFI set-ups. You may find that the "Look" you seek comes with a hefty price tag. Prepare for money well north of $7000 - just sayin. I'd wager that you'll probably have to get a different cam in that beast. Most of those set-ups require a specific cam grind, and I doubt the current monster cam you undoubtedly have will fit the bill.

3) Think about dual carbs. They have "The Look" too.

Honestly, if you are making 750 HP with a 650 carb - good on ya. Why mess up a good thing?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by STL Mark

2) Do a bit more research about Webber, and EFI set-ups. You may find that the "Look" you seek comes with a hefty price tag. Prepare for money well north of $7000 - just sayin. I'd wager that you'll probably have to get a different cam in that beast. Most of those set-ups require a specific cam grind, and I doubt the current monster cam you undoubtedly have will fit the bill.

I alluded to this very point in post #8-that the planned induction change is very dependent on the engines ability to use it. Since you don't know any specs, you would need to change out parts like cam and heads to be more compatible with the chosen induction. I know the cost doesn't bother you, but you may wind-up with an undriveable lump because unlike Mark, I suspect you have low-performance parts.
Even a stock iron 460 with 450 HP would easily do what you accomplish the way you use the car.
Mark makes a good point; tearing into your engine (by a reputable builder) just to identify parts is money better spent before a comprehensive induction change-over.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Mother

I would love to detail the 460 engine than was built for me. Unfortunatly I do not have the exact specs. And the cam specs will not be released by the builder. I do not even have a copy of the dino report. So, I understand why you guys feel that I am stringing you along.

Despite my refusal earlier to comment further I want to correct your misunderstanding. I do not feel like you were 'stringing us along'.
Sadly, this news reinforces the feeling that several of us were correct in that apparently you were mistreated and misinformed intentionally by this builder.
Not providing build information, consulting you about part selection or providing evidence to support the claimed power production, is outrageous and insulting.
No one I ever heard of in ten years on this board has tolerated such treatment and engaged in a business transaction with such a builder. That's why we share info on here; to help others avoid such mistreatment and expose unscrupulous builders and vendors.
Had you been a more frequent visitor here and studied the available info before purchase, you would certainly have had a satisfactory and reasonably-priced build.
My intent above was to show that high quality, very high power 385's are available at half the egregious cost you were charged. In hindsight, you could reasonably round-trip a problematic engine five times (assuming your own expense) to a US builder and still not reach the total sum you spent. And I'm certain that would not have been necessary even once with the likes of Jon. Barry Rabotnick is also a first-rate builder 'on your doorstep' in Michigan.
Doing easy burnouts is a hooligan act that many of us enjoy but are done with as little as a 350HP combination in our light cars. I can assure you without contradiction that what little description you could provide does not add up to the claimed power level. But it's certainly enough to please you and in the end, that's all that counts.
I hope you come more often to join the discussions and do the research to further enjoy your car.
For the record, I'm older than you are and our local speed limits range from 55 to 65MPH with confiscation penalties also. That has not stopped me from 155MPH (on 'only' 550HP) at the right time and place - both on and off track.
Foolish? Sure-but that's why I love what Cobras are when used to their limits.